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CALMAX; where is it?
- Thread starter eloreno
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USAknifemaker has elmax. Its Bohler. Don't know about calmax haven't been to the site lately...
Bet is they could hook you up...
Bet is they could hook you up...
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I would think if they get elmax often enough calmax shouldn't be a problem. Good luck!
You have piqued my interst... what's the project or is it black ops stuff...
You have piqued my interst... what's the project or is it black ops stuff...
james terrio
Sharpest Knife in the Light Socket
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It may or may not be available rolled out to suitable sizes for knifemaking. If you can't get an answer from USAknifmaker, try Aldo at NJSB and Chuck at AKS. If they can't find it in the size you want, it probably doesn't exist. I'd wait until next week to call them, they'll both be pretty busy in their booths at BLADE this weekend.
I'm curious why you want it. I've never used it, but just from looking at the datasheet, I don't see anything all that remarkable. It appears to be very tough, but so is CPM-3V, with much better wear-resistance.
I'm curious why you want it. I've never used it, but just from looking at the datasheet, I don't see anything all that remarkable. It appears to be very tough, but so is CPM-3V, with much better wear-resistance.
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I have an internet friend who used it in very large blades and tools and was very impressed with it (CALMAX).
The way I understand it: you can think of Calmax as similar to S7, but S7 is good for 57/58RC where calmax is intended to hit 60, so you get a lot more strength (and edge retention) to go with the toughness.
I will be making some very large blades and wanted to use this steel. One because it is a great option, Two it is NOT often used, making it more "exclusive"!
Thanks for the tips everyone!
erik
The way I understand it: you can think of Calmax as similar to S7, but S7 is good for 57/58RC where calmax is intended to hit 60, so you get a lot more strength (and edge retention) to go with the toughness.
I will be making some very large blades and wanted to use this steel. One because it is a great option, Two it is NOT often used, making it more "exclusive"!
Thanks for the tips everyone!
erik
Eloreno,
I searched for it a few months ago...it is not available in North America. I contacted Aldo (and a ton of other places) and finally spoke with John Steedman, the rep for BU, and he told me it is not available in North America. And for whatever it's worth, when Kyley Harris used it, his steel supplier cut off a huge sheet of it from a hunk the size of a car. Even if you can find it outside of NA, it will be hard to find it in bar form suitable for knives.
With regards to the advantages over 3V, from what I understand it is way tougher, very easy to grind when it does suffer damage, and also does not have the carbides 3v has making it more suitable for thinner and more acute edges.
I searched for it a few months ago...it is not available in North America. I contacted Aldo (and a ton of other places) and finally spoke with John Steedman, the rep for BU, and he told me it is not available in North America. And for whatever it's worth, when Kyley Harris used it, his steel supplier cut off a huge sheet of it from a hunk the size of a car. Even if you can find it outside of NA, it will be hard to find it in bar form suitable for knives.
With regards to the advantages over 3V, from what I understand it is way tougher, very easy to grind when it does suffer damage, and also does not have the carbides 3v has making it more suitable for thinner and more acute edges.
james terrio
Sharpest Knife in the Light Socket
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Interesting. Again, I'm only going from the BU datasheet on Calmax, but I'm not seeing anything that would support any of those claims. But I've been wrong before.
james terrio
Sharpest Knife in the Light Socket
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I had the pleasure to chat extensively with a Bohler-Uddeholm rep at the BLADE show this weekend, and (among other things) I asked him lots of questions about Calmax, specifically as it might be used in knives, and how it might compare to CPM-3V.
The B-U rep I spoke with did not claim that Calmax is tougher than 3V, nor does their published info on the Charpy tests claim that. In fact, in B-U's own published testing literature, at normal knife hardnesses like 58Rc and 61-2 Rc, Calmax is noticeably less tough than CPM-3V (according to Crucible's reports). Both are still far tougher than D2, but less tough than S7.
Grindability indeed looks to be quite high; that also means edge-retention will be correspondingly low.
It's pretty clear that Calmax was not designed with fine edges in mind. It's a punch and die steel, not a cutting steel.
Let's keep in mind that CPM-3V has a fairly low percentage of carbides, and they are quite small and evenly-distributed. We're not talking about D2-type chunks of carbides here. I have never had a problem getting a very fine crisp edge on CPM-3V, and neither have independent parties who've tested my knives and others'. Let's also consider that those fine, very hard carbides add a good deal of wear-resistance without sacrificing superior toughness.
What I heard from the rep is that Calmax was not designed for cutlery at all, and quite frankly he was not one bit enthused about using it for knives. He was somewhat surprised that I was even considering it. In fact, after hearing that I'm accustomed to using 3V and Elmax, and looking over one of my standard models with an acute bevel and thin edge, he pretty much talked me out of even bothering with Calmax... he just didn't see any advantage to it.
Bohler-Uddeholm does indeed make several other alloys that are excellent for knife blades, including M390 and Elmax. They also have other grades forthcoming, that may prove to be very interesting for knifemaking purposes.
The B-U rep I spoke with did not claim that Calmax is tougher than 3V, nor does their published info on the Charpy tests claim that. In fact, in B-U's own published testing literature, at normal knife hardnesses like 58Rc and 61-2 Rc, Calmax is noticeably less tough than CPM-3V (according to Crucible's reports). Both are still far tougher than D2, but less tough than S7.
Grindability indeed looks to be quite high; that also means edge-retention will be correspondingly low.
It's pretty clear that Calmax was not designed with fine edges in mind. It's a punch and die steel, not a cutting steel.
Let's keep in mind that CPM-3V has a fairly low percentage of carbides, and they are quite small and evenly-distributed. We're not talking about D2-type chunks of carbides here. I have never had a problem getting a very fine crisp edge on CPM-3V, and neither have independent parties who've tested my knives and others'. Let's also consider that those fine, very hard carbides add a good deal of wear-resistance without sacrificing superior toughness.
What I heard from the rep is that Calmax was not designed for cutlery at all, and quite frankly he was not one bit enthused about using it for knives. He was somewhat surprised that I was even considering it. In fact, after hearing that I'm accustomed to using 3V and Elmax, and looking over one of my standard models with an acute bevel and thin edge, he pretty much talked me out of even bothering with Calmax... he just didn't see any advantage to it.
Bohler-Uddeholm does indeed make several other alloys that are excellent for knife blades, including M390 and Elmax. They also have other grades forthcoming, that may prove to be very interesting for knifemaking purposes.
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3v is around 95 Joules at 60Rc in a C notch test.
Calmax looks to be around 28-29 Joules at 60Rc in a V notch test I'm not sure I'm reading the tables correctly though.
It is my understanding that the two tests are very different and that the V notch test is a much more strenuous test of impact strength???
Calmax looks to be around 28-29 Joules at 60Rc in a V notch test I'm not sure I'm reading the tables correctly though.
It is my understanding that the two tests are very different and that the V notch test is a much more strenuous test of impact strength???
Hopefully I'll be home soon and can more easily check the 2 data sheets. If one is using c notch and the other v notch, my assumption would be the one using v notch is tougher, but the two tests ought not be compared directly in any case. Both are tough in any case, and I cant see a reason not to use Calmax if you can get it and the higher wear of 3V isnt a priority, as it wouldn't be for a very rough use blade for me. Of course I'd probably just go with 5160 or 9260 for cost reasons.
A mutual friend pointed out to me on another forum that the two tests can't be compared because of a lot of factors. Guess it's up in the air then as a certainty.
And agreed. The lack of need for the wear resistance in a larger chopper plus the easy grindability of Calmax is what makes it attractive to me for such blades. Honestly though, I imagine you're right that you wouldn't be giving much up with 5160 or 9260...in fact when cost is considered you'd probably be gaining in a lot of ways.
