Camillus 696 - Suggestions

J

JackBoots

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http://www.bladez.com/Camillus696.html

The Camillus 696 is a well designed knife, but here are some suggestions to make it better:

1) One hand opening stud;
2) Lock blade;
3) Clip or kydex sheath needed; and
4) A blade that will not rust.

The current blade is high-carbon but stainless steel, seems to be an oxymoron :)

Is there any material that could make the handle buoyant enough to keep the knife afloat, in case it drops in the water ?

Interested to here what the manufacturer thinks and any plans they have to upgrade the knife.

The Boye knife company have some good ideas:

http://www.boyeknives.com/

http://www.boyeknives.com/images/review.pdf

Regards,

JB
 
Some comments on this knife:

The springs are very strong, a one hand opening stud wouldn´t work as is.

The blade doesn´t lock, but again the strong springs make it hard for an accidental close to happen.

The design is from before the common use of clips, and sheaths were usually leather, pocket carry was normal even for knives this large.

Don´t get confused by the "high carbon stainless steel" designation, it´s a regular stainless steel, and lower in carbon than other stainless steels, it will resist rust as well or better than others, I believe it´s 440A.

It is a very heavy knife due to the thick, strong liners and delrin scales, to make it float would be a very different knife.

This design is almost a classic, there´s a version made to government specifications which are unlikely to change.

I feel this knife is good as it is and unlikely to change. And there are other, different rigging knives around.

Now, if I want just a good one hand opener without marlin spike, there are many, many to choose from.
 
Originally posted by Don Luis
Some comments on this knife:

>The springs are very strong, a one hand opening stud wouldn´t work as is.

Yup, tension would need to be adjusted.

> The blade doesn´t lock, but again the strong springs make it hard for an accidental close to happen.

Lockblade is safer

>The design is from before the common use of clips, and sheaths were usually leather, pocket carry was normal even for knives this large.

Hence the need for an update

>Don´t get confused by the "high carbon stainless steel" designation, it´s a regular stainless steel, and lower in carbon than other stainless steels, it will resist rust as well or better than others, I believe it´s 440A.

Okay

>It is a very heavy knife due to the thick, strong liners and delrin scales, to make it float would be a very different knife.

A buoyant knife would push the limits of modern materials, but would be an interesting challenge for a knifemaker!

>This design is almost a classic, there´s a version made to government specifications which are unlikely to change.

Yes, it is a classic, but contemporary people want modern knives.

>I feel this knife is good as it is and unlikely to change. And there are other, different rigging knives around.

Well, they updated the Becker 7", which I own and it is a great knife at a great price ! A perfect example of what I am talking about.

>Now, if I want just a good one hand opener without marlin spike, there are many, many to choose from.

Yes, but to be a 'proper' example of a sailors knife, it should have the Marlin Spike.

Cordially

JB
Click to expand...
 
JB,
The solution is not to mess with a proven design that has worked very well for many, many years but for you to contact a custom maker and have him make a knife to your specifications - I'm sure there are many makers out there that would be happy to make YOUR knife the way YOU want it. If it worked and was viable who knows, a factory could pick it up as a collaboration with the maker.

Bill
 
Well, though I have and like my old Camillus rigging knife, I agree that it would be nice to have more modern and better alternatives at production prices, not custom.

There are indeed alternatives from other manufacturers, some lock both the blade and the spike, some are light in weight, some have integrated LED lights, some have glow in the dark handles.

I guess it´s valid to ask Camillus, maybe not to change the old classic but to come out with a new knife, I know I would like a lightweight one hand opener with pocket clip, locking blade and spike, the spike could have a shackle opening cutout which would help for lighter weight.

But, is there a market for it ?, would a large manufacturer like Camillus be interested ?.
 
Please fellows,

Don't misunderstand, I am not attacking Camillus, I own a Becker 7 and am proud to say so.

This is a Camillus forum and if I want to make constructive criticism about one of their knives, I think it should be reviewed professionally.

I standby my recommendations and would politely urge Camillus to comment on them.

Cordially,

JB
 
JB,
The model 696 rigging knife has been in the CAMILLUS line-up for a number of years, due primarily to the fact the we make the 697 mil-spec rigging knife, and the 2 models share many common parts. Basically, everything but the scales and bolsters are the same....the 696 is a "civilian" version if you will.

The rigging knife is a heavy duty work knife, purchased primarily for military or industrial uses. The blade needs to be sturdy, and the spike needs to be thick. The lock for the spike is very sturdy, as needed for the multi-directional prying and levering needed in splicing and rope work. The blade is a sheep's foot, as requested by mil-spec, and therefore generally not in need of a lock....stiff springs suffice. So with these things in mind...

Enough bouyant handle material to float the heavy blade and spike would make the knife very bulky, and in general, not as durable as needed in an industrial and military work setting. A shakle is provided for a lanyard, and this should be imployed to keep from loosing the knife overboard.

I take it from your questions and suggestions that you are thinking of this knife for personal use, and I agree, a pocket clip, and maybe a one-hand opening blade would be nice features, but we have to make the 697 the way we do to comply with mil-spec for the Coastguard and Navy. Military and industrial use is what these knives are intended for and what they are primarily purchased with in mind. We have to make the knife not only sturdy enough for those uses, but at a low enough cost that they will be purchased.

We appreciate your interest, but we have not seen enough interest in an updated, and more expensive, rigging knife for the private sector. Everything in your suggestion list could be easily meet, with the exception of floatation, but the cost would most likely be many times that of the existing model. The market would most likely be corrospondingly very small.

Edited,
I see now that I left out a response regarding the steel used. The blade is 420HC, Rc 57-58. This steel is well suited to the task as it is about as corrosion resistant as any steel out there that is still capable or holding an edge well enough to cut rope, and has plenty of lateral strenght and general toughness for heavy work. The term "High Carbon Stainless" refers to the fact that unlike alot of stainless steels, remember that most stainless' are not suitible as blade material, this steel has enough carbon present to be heat treated to a hardness capable of holding an edge through multiple cutting tasks.




Thanks again for your interest.
 
Hello Will,

Thank you for your response.

You mention that you meet some type of minimum military standard, but this is not reassuring for a private person. The military sets low standards and then subs out to the lowest bidder.

I think the points I made about modernizing the knife are reasonable requests. I agree that the price would increase, but that is the cost for a knife we want.

For example, why don't we all just buy Buck 110s, they were the first and they make a classic knife ? Well, because we want modern knives with modern materials.

If you take a look at the Boye knife link, I think you will see the way these knives should be going with materials, my several suggestions make your knife better than Boyes sailor knife and fill in the hole.

You claim there is not much market for these knives, but please recall the planet is 75% water, including lakes and rivers with many boaters, both personal and business in nature.

I like Camillus and with their recent history of updating their knives to contemporary levels, I am hopeful, these changes will be considered and hopefully implemented.

Regards,

JB
 
JackBoots,
Have you looked into the Myerchin line of knives?
I think they have something to fit your bill.

I think the points I made about modernizing the knife are reasonable requests. I agree that the price would increase, but that is the cost for a knife we want.
Click to expand...

Actually it seems like a request for a knife YOU want.
Maybe if Myerchin doesn't work for you, a custom maker can deliver one built to your specs. Most rigging knives are semi-disposable items for a reason-they are used hard and put away wet, very, very few folks wil pay over $25 dollars for an industrial grade tool, IMO.
 
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