Can a Few Passes on a Steel Make a Differnce?

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usframe

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Jul 8, 2010
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We've got some older friends that were using some really horrible knives in the kitchen, so we got them an upgrade a few years back. Nothing special, but we knew from experience that they were easy to maintain. On a recent visit, all I could say was yikes as I watched them sawing away and getting nowhere cutting up fresh veggies. It was then related to me that "Harry the scissor and knife sharpening fellow" hadn't been around for about 40 years. I borrowed the knife for a quick fix and thought I'd share our related "test".
[video=youtube;mVAP-WyEc7w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVAP-WyEc7w[/video]
 
Those grooved steels make a nice edge on softer steel, just like a real fine file - impressive how consistent the scratch pattern can be. I'm not a fan of them on harder steels, but on the average kitchen cutlery my results mirror yours - nice video!

A while back I did a short study of the effects when using a smooth(er) steel - I learned a lot and ate a little shoe leather in the process...
 
HeavyHanded said:
Those grooved steels make a nice edge on softer steel, just like a real fine file - impressive how consistent the scratch pattern can be. I'm not a fan of them on harder steels, but on the average kitchen cutlery my results mirror yours - nice video!

A while back I did a short study of the effects when using a smooth(er) steel - I learned a lot and ate a little shoe leather in the process...
Click to expand...

I've got a handful of little 'Sheffield' stamped steels (grooved; pic below), which were sold for or included with some Victorinox SAK models that included belt pouches, like the SwissChamp; the pouch included a storage loop for the steel. Don't know if they still include or even sell those, anymore. As tiny as they are, with the rod at 2-3/4" in length, it's amazing how fast one of those can generate a full-length burr on a softish blade's edge, in one or two passes. For it's size, probably one of the fastest-working honing devices I've seen. Not the prettiest of edges produced; but in a pinch, it's a very easy way to put the 'bite' back into a simple kitchen paring knife or similar blade.

21SZs%2BBg6oL.jpg



BTW, in the video, that Chicago Cutlery steel looks exactly like the one included in a block set (same brand) that my mother has been using for the last 30+ years, maybe longer. I've seldom even tried it on a blade, but I guess I'll need to re-visit that. :thumbup:


David
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
BTW, in the video, that Chicago Cutlery steel looks exactly like the one included in a block set (same brand) that my mother has been using for the last 30+ years, maybe longer. I've seldom even tried it on a blade, but I guess I'll need to re-visit that. :thumbup:


David
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I was selling those during the early 80s out of a hardware store. Back before Walmart, Home Depot and the like existed, at least in this area. We provided darn near everything for a household. I still have several Chicago Cutlery kitchen knives in use from that period, and still enjoy putting them to work.
 
usframe said:
I was selling those during the early 80s out of a hardware store. Back before Walmart, Home Depot and the like existed, at least in this area. We provided darn near everything for a household. I still have several Chicago Cutlery kitchen knives in use from that period, and still enjoy putting them to work.
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I think the set my mother uses is same vintage, maybe even going back into late '70s. Don't remember how/when/where she got them. Those are still on the countertop in her kitchen, with most of the larger knives having very little wear. She's used the heck out of the paring knife though, as has my Dad and my sister :D ). :thumbup:


David
 
I believe so.

it wont sharpen a knife but will keep a decent edge in cutting condition.
 
It also is important to know the audience. When I was asked by those folks if I had sharpened that knife for them, any other answer than, "yes, I did," seems somewhat silly.
 
On softer steels you are "sharpening" in a very real use of the word. The grooved steels absolutely remove steel from the edge, leaving a new cutting edge. The important factor is the steel in the blade. One cannot treat a machete, hatchet, or inexpensive kitchen knife the same as a high RC steel. Take a file to hardened tool steel and you'll trash the file, take a file to a carbon steel at RC 54 and you can craft a great edge.
 
I have been having a hard time eliminating the burrs on my machete and other soft steel out door tools. That is with a file mind you. Do you think a fine steel would help?
 
I never liked the "steels" that came with knife sets, but I do have a few ceramic "steels" from Chicago Cutlery that are the bomb. I had a 4 step process for sharpening. First was the ceramic, then a butcher steel that was a good 50 years old (the grooves very worn down) then a Hand American polished steel, and the last step was stropping on leather also from Hand American. I can shave with most of my knives :)
 
Squashfan said:
I have been having a hard time eliminating the burrs on my machete and other soft steel out door tools. That is with a file mind you. Do you think a fine steel would help?
Click to expand...

I used to bring a worn grooved steel with me when I walked my old property, cutting wild grape and poison ivy vines. Would use the file back at the garage for bigger repairs. The steel does a better job of burr removal but only a little - actually helps if the grooved steel is in good shape. With some practice and a light touch you can get mostly burr-free with a file - the smaller the file, the finer the teeth. I mostly use a 6" one to finish, then use an old grooved steel wrapped with a layer of masking tape and heavily dosed with compound to do a final quick polish and deburr.

To be honest, I seldom use this method anymore but just sharpened up my ditch knife a few weeks ago using this exact method and it nearly cut the tip of my finger off when I was wiping it down after the sharpening (have to remember to place the cutting edge on a piece of wood when wiping down). Mostly I use a stone and sharpen my machetes like any other knife in sections, and strop on my Washboard. There's a video in the thread linked to my signature where I show a simple machete sharpening method. The finished edge dropped through crossgrain newspaper - that's the edge I prefer on my choppers - actually a bit more refined than my smaller EDU knives.
 
Steels from block sets pretty much always suck. The best ones I've come across are made by Friedrich Dick, which makes sense since they were originally (and still are) a file manufacturer. This means they know what steel to use, how to cut the grooves properly, and how to get them nice and hard. Most low-end steels suffer from the same problem as low-end files--they're simply too soft, and often the grooves aren't cut well at all.

My F. Dick Balkan-style "flat" (actually a wide lenticular cross section) steel is actually my most-used edge maintenance tool these days, and I use it on everything from kitchen and pocket knives to my scythe blades. The flat integral handle makes it easy to carry in a 12" generic machete sheath. You can see me using it at the beginning of this clip:

[video=youtube;Oe-OfaMsogA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe-OfaMsogA[/video]
 
I believe the Dick's steeling rods are a bit outdated, as fine ceramic ones perform at least as good, and are much more affordable.
You may use them with hard steel types, but take care: respect the geometry and have a light, very light touch.
 
I disagree. Ceramics work nice enough on hard steels...but they're fragile, and they clog. One of the nice things with a good steel is that all you have to do to clean it of metal fines is wipe it on your pant leg. Also, they're available in a much larger range of styles of both cut and shape, including mirror-polished oval slicks which purposefully have zero abrasive action. I think that while traditional steels aren't appropriate for all folks' needs, they're FAR from outdated and are, if anything, given far too little attention and respect. They work, and work well. :)

Hard steel on culinary knives honestly strikes me as a little silly, but that's my take. I'd much rather have a mid-50's RC knife that's super fast and easy to bring back to scary sharpness. Most things in the kitchen that'll damage a knife are things like plates or impacts with glass or metal, and those'll kill any edge so it may as well be easy to fix it up. Regular cutting causes such minimal wear as to be negligible.
 
My black MAC doesn't clog, because it does not abrade that much. And it works very well with hard Japanese steels, and soft French carbons.
 
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