Can a good liner lock outperform a framelock?

[Quiet Storm]

Since some people talk the liner lock down pretty much, I started asking myself if the framelock is just a better mechanism. Some people seem think the liner lock is useless today. What do you think?

I don´t have much experience with framelocks, but I had the opportunity to handle a BM Pinnacle last week and it felt rock-solid, unlike some folders I´ve already handled. But I still don´t think liner locks are useless, because I feel that a well-done liner lock could equal a framelock, maybe even outperform it.

Input?

 

[tallwingedgoat]

A framelock is just linerlock without the scales. You can make a linerlock with the liner as thick as a framelock, and there would be no difference. I still think the Microtech Microbar is the most sensible approach. Linerlocks can be as strong as a folding knife needs to be, that's what matters.

Here's a pic of the Strider GB, Sebenza, Strider AR, Ryan Silver Knight, from the thread liner lock - why not even thicker?

The Microbar lock

 

[Cliff Stamp]

tallwingedgoat :

You can make a linerlock with the liner as thick as a framelock, and there would be no difference.

You hand is in direct compression contact with the lock bar on an integral, this has a significant effect on its security in various applications.

-Cliff

 

[Cosmic Superchunk]

If linerlocks are useless, then why do we see so many of them still being made by factories and custom makers? I've carried and used linerlock folders from a variety of manufacturers and have found them to be reliable for daily use. Some are obviously better than others, so you have to make sure the linerlock knife you buy meets to your satisfaction.

 

[The Magician]

I frikkin love a well done liner lock. Frame lock is the same as far as i am concerened. How many lock failures of any kind do you hear of? We got like 20 million members or something now, so I am sure we would hear if it happened. Now of course you go around whacking a folder on the spine, you are abusing your knife and it should bite you. How would you like it if somone whacked you in a joint to see how tough it was. If you are that concerned get a fixed blade.

I apologize for bad typing, but trying to fix it usually makes it worse. (bad tremors)

 

[JoeShmoe2002]

I think the Frame lock is just a tiny bit better because the tighter you grip the tighter it locks.

That said, I can't imagine doing anything with my liner locks that would fold them in 'normal' use... so I own several...

My favorite knives right now are frame locks (Kershaw).

 

[The Magician]

Originally posted by JoeShmoe2002
...My favorite knives right now are frame locks (Kershaw).

Vapor? Man those knives are so cool for the price! I was just thinking of going to wal mart and getting another, just because.

 

[ARtsig1]

I jsut picked up a Kit Carson large Model 16 last week. This is one with the titanium bolsters and ti frame with green/black G-10 scales. I have quickly grown VERY<VERY fond of this knife. Of course it is a liner lock and any liner lock is only as good as it has been engineered to be. Short of doing a spine whack test, which I have not...and probably won't, on this knife I have tried to get the lock to disengage. I have done this by putting pressure on the back of the blade, relax, and then apply again. The objective is to get the liner to "walk" its way back to the left and cause the blade to become disengaged. I haven't been able to cause any failures. The model 16 is as tight as it can be!

I tell you all of this to say that as much as I have come to like this knife, if I had to put my hand and fingers on the line with only one knife it would be one of my large Classic Sebenza's! The frame lock only engages further the harder you grip and/or twist it.

Since I am not limited to just one knife though, the model 16 Carson is going to see plenty of time in my pocket and in my hand!!

 

[Boink]

The frame lock is the closest thing to a fixed blade.

Sure, it's probably similar in some way to a liner lock, but think how safer it is to have a piece of metal the same thickness as the blade contacting it, with your grip putting even more pressure on the slab that consistently contacts the back of the blade.

This thing isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think it's the safest lock.

You have never heard of a frame lock failing a spine whack test. You probably won't.

If you do happen to trust your fingers to a liner lock, then at least make sure it's got some thickness; has proper contact with the back of the blade and is heat treated in a manner consistent with the blade so that uneven wear won't happen. Finally, make sure it's below the surface edge of the scales so that either lefty handling or torquing of the handle does not accidently release the lock.

For me, life's a lot easier and safer with a frame lock.

 

[tallwingedgoat]

I maintain a framelock is just a variant of the linerlock. This here is a folder by Neil Blackwood. It meets every definition of a linerlock, yet you can apply pressure to the lock via your grip:

I think it's a moot point. Any well made linerlock with a thick enough liner will stand up to serious use. I don't think it's wise to abuse any folding knife however. If you pushed your framelock to the point of failure, I seriously doubt the strength of your finger could hold back the breach.

Maybe I'm crazy, but folding knives are for cutting things, not tied to a staff and used as a javelin as you could with some fixed blades. I have nothing against framelocks, but to answer the original question; no, the linerlock is not useless today. Especially since linerlocks offer certain advantages, like having a non-metallic grip.

 

[knifenerd]

Go back to Cliff Stamp's post. It's pretty tough to "torque" your way into a problem with a frame lock. Poorly made liner locks may fail, but the frame lock, by it's nature, is going to tend to hang in there.

 

[Mongrel]

Whatever happend to the Ron Lake-Michael Walker designed\patented "interlock safety mechanism"?

I have the Gerber Applegate-Fairbairn Covert model that has this feature. I totally trust it to keep the liner lock from failing.

Basically for those who aren't familiar with it:

It is a small steel 'partial' disc with a samll tab on the top side that is fitted between the scale and the blade. It is engaged by pushing on the tab at the pivot point with the thumb. This rotates the disc which in turn blocks the liner lock from slipping off the blade contact point. It is very easy to engage or disengage and really does a great job in keeping the liner lock in place should it slip.

I have more confidence in this liner lock than any other I own, because of this Lake\Walker safety. I am really curious why it never caught on with other makers\designers as it is an effective simple way to secure a liner lock. Seems that every liner lock I have seen could have one of these installed without too much trouble.

Mongrel

 

[Manji]

a framelock is basically a liner lock without the scales, the biggest difference is that with a framelock your hand will be holding the locking bar in place which makes it techinically better then a linerlock. a thick liner lock usually doesn't work too well cause with the scales on top of it the handle will be too thick for most people. framlocks usually sacrifice style for practicallity as liner locks usually look better because of the different scales.

 

[db]

If a frame lock is berrer or a liner lock.
I do have a hard time buying the hand will hold the FL in place. I agree with Tallwing's statement;
If you pushed your framelock to the point of failure, I seriously doubt the strength of your finger could hold back the breach.

 

[stratocaster]

I agree that you should probably avoid abusing your folder.

As for frame locks, I think we'll be seeing alot more of them. All the knife mags indicate it is a "new" trend and many are in the works, like the Strider SnG.

BTW, that's a preatty Blackwood.

BBTW, El Cid - I dig your avatar- My favorate album of all time! From one of the greatest bands ever IMHO, although they will probably never get the credit they deserve. Beautiful songs...

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Yes the locks are very strong, however in general they are not very stable and can be unlocked by a variety of ways, some as simple as just twisting the knife in a piece of cardboard.

Tallwingedgoat, interesting picture of the Blackwood knife, it is pretty much an intermixing of liner and integral. Its either an integral with grip overlays. Or a really thick liner with partial slabs.

-Cliff

 

[Ashes]

I carry a Benchmade with an axis lock. What do you think of these? I love it.

 

[Dr.Lathe]

Damn, that IS a purty knife

Cliff is right, it's a framelock with overlays. The frame is .125 Ti. I will be making several variations of this pattern. Some will have bare frames with simple hole patterns using .150 Ti for the frames. Others will have smaller overlays, some will also have overlays on just one side with tip up carry clips.

I also have some linerlock versions in process with damascus blades and bolsters. Same pattern just "dressier" !! It's very easy to produce just about any combination once the basic pattern is worked out.

One of the KEY points of a true framelock is the ability to keep the lock clean and free of any debris that might cause it to not close. Anyone that has ever field dressed a deer or other animial with a framelock will know what I mean. Once a linerlock is open, the area between the lockbar and the handle scale is prone to gathering CRUD that will prevent the lock bar from disengaging. On Framelock (with NO overlays) this cannot happen.

Cliff, I havn't forgotten you!!


Neil