Can a2 support a fine edge?

[noob93]

So just to start I am not a knife maker I just figured I'd get some more educated answers here. I know some steels can take an acute edge and remain pretty tough. Would a2 do well in this area say for a long thin camp style knife.

 

[kuraki]

Yes. A2 is quite stable and has a very fine grain. I think hardness and chipping is the bigger concern than rolling or deforming, with the knife you're describing, depending on how thin and hard you actually intend to be.

 

[noob93]

Yes. A2 is quite stable and has a very fine grain. I think hardness and chipping is the bigger concern than rolling or deforming, with the knife you're describing, depending on how thin and hard you actually intend to be.

would be for a camp type knife for food prep and breaking down small branches and such. 1/8th of an inch thick with a 8 inch blade.

 

[JTknives]

I made my wife a kitchen slicer out of A2 and its ground VERY thin and it preforms flawless in doing what it was designed to do.

 

[Horsewright]

Absolutely. this skinner is down to almost a zero edge. 5/32" A2 @ 62 RC.

Also use it for camp knives but don't take it quite so thin.

It is plenty tough.

 

[Daniel Fairly Knives]

Hartsfield!

 

[noob93]

Absolutely. this skinner is down to almost a zero edge. 5/32" A2 @ 62 RC.

Also use it for camp knives but don't take it quite so thin.

It is plenty tough.

Nice knives I really like the wood on that first one. Thank for the info from you and the other makers. Sounds like a2 isn't a bad choice. The only thing I would wonder is with such a long thin blade if it has the ability to flex rather then snap like say 5160. I don't pry with my knives so this is really just out of curiosity?

 

[JTknives]

Flex is a function of thickness and geometry not hardness. It flexes just fine and makes great fillet knives. Here is one kitchen knife I made out of A2 for my wife.

This is another tiny thin flexy kitchen knife I made her out of A2. It performs amazing.

 

[noob93]

Flex is a function of thickness and geometry not hardness. It flexes just fine and makes great fillet knives. Here is one kitchen knife I made out of A2 for my wife.

This is another tiny thin flexy kitchen knife I made her out of A2. It performs amazing.

Your wife is one lucky woman those knives look great. They definitely look thin and very ergonomic. Thank you very much for the great information and keep up the great work.

 

[Horsewright]

Absolutely true, Geometry and thickness provides flex. Not hardness. Leather skivving knife used to thin leather edges. The flex allows you to control the angle of the skive. AEB-L @63 RC so very hard. Designed and further refined by our own Paul Long (sheathmaker here on BF).

 

[JG Custom Metal Works]

In regards to the purpose of the knife, you mentioned "breaking down branches." If you were chopping with it chipping might be an issue, especially when it hits hardwood or knots. Kind of goes for most steel with super thin edge profiles though. For what you were talking about, I think 3v would be awesome.

I personally like to carry a larger knife with a more obtuse edge and a smaller blade with a very acute edge. For instance, one of my camp knives is a Becker bk9. On it's sheath it has a small pouch. It holds a scalpel handle and pack of blades perfectly. It works great for skinning or "field surgery." If I know I'll be doing a decent amount of chopping I'll take an axe or hatched. I like big blades as much as the next guy, but for chopping, there really is no comparison between and axe and a large knife. Axe is king in that regard. Was thinking about making a small double bit belt axe(Nessmuk) with one side being very obtuse for chopping roots or other things that are hard on edges, and acute on the other side.

 

[noob93]

In regards to the purpose of the knife, you mentioned "breaking down branches." If you were chopping with it chipping might be an issue, especially when it hits hardwood or knots. Kind of goes for most steel with super thin edge profiles though. For what you were talking about, I think 3v would be awesome.

I personally like to carry a larger knife with a more obtuse edge and a smaller blade with a very acute edge. For instance, one of my camp knives is a Becker bk9. On it's sheath it has a small pouch. It holds a scalpel handle and pack of blades perfectly. It works great for skinning or "field surgery." If I know I'll be doing a decent amount of chopping I'll take an axe or hatched. I like big blades as much as the next guy, but for chopping, there really is no comparison between and axe and a large knife. Axe is king in that regard. Was thinking about making a small double bit belt axe(Nessmuk) with one side being very obtuse for chopping roots or other things that are hard on edges, and acute on the other side.

Ya I know I know I'm breaking all the rules as usual haha. No but seriously I won't be using it to chop anything large just small branches. Maybe might pull her out for some bushwhacking need be. I have thought about 3v myself but it's hard to find a maker in Canada who's familiar with it. Also iv been under the impression that 3v would be difficult to sharpen comparatively? Good choice on that bk9 I had a bk2 and it screamed to be used. Good thinking on the field scalpel kit I'll have to remember that one.

 

[noob93]

In regards to the purpose of the knife, you mentioned "breaking down branches." If you were chopping with it chipping might be an issue, especially when it hits hardwood or knots. Kind of goes for most steel with super thin edge profiles though. For what you were talking about, I think 3v would be awesome.

I personally like to carry a larger knife with a more obtuse edge and a smaller blade with a very acute edge. For instance, one of my camp knives is a Becker bk9. On it's sheath it has a small pouch. It holds a scalpel handle and pack of blades perfectly. It works great for skinning or "field surgery." If I know I'll be doing a decent amount of chopping I'll take an axe or hatched. I like big blades as much as the next guy, but for chopping, there really is no comparison between and axe and a large knife. Axe is king in that regard. Was thinking about making a small double bit belt axe(Nessmuk) with one side being very obtuse for chopping roots or other things that are hard on edges, and acute on the other side.

btw I really like the sound of that double sided nesmuk....must be the canadian in me

 

[Kansaswoodguy]

I've not used A2 for cutlery knives but I have made wood lathe tools out of it and I liked it very well for that purpose these where not particularly fine edge tools however.

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

A2 does fine for edge stability (probably better than 3V), but consider your use of cryo and the effect that RA plays on edge stability. There is more RA than we used to believe.

I saw this the other day. From "Heat Treating, Including Steel Heat Treating in the New Millennium" (ASM Heat Treating Society) 2000.

A2 oil quenched from 1775°F had RA 16-18% (as quenched), 64-65HRC.
A single 400°F temper had no change on RA, but reduced hardness to ~60HRC.
A single 1000°F temper reduced RA to levels below X-Ray diffraction detection (<2%), lowering hardness to 56-57HRC.

A2 oil quenched from 1775°F
A -100°F cold treatment was applied to as-quenched sample, reducing A2 RA to 9% raising hardness to 65-66HRC.
A single 400°F temper drop RA in A2 to 4%, hardness 61-62HRC.

A2 oil quenched from 1775°F
immersed in LN for 3 hours, result was RA <2%, 66.5HRC

The problem with RA and possibly converted RA is weakness on a small scale and possibly reduced cohesion with surrounding matrix of converted structures. This is important for fine edge stability. This is low hanging fruit.

So, A2 does pretty well with edge stability, but not "out of the box", you have to process it for edge stability. Cryo is an important part of the equation, as is starting with quality A2. :thumbup:

 

[Matthew Gregory]

Quality of the steel can't be stressed enough. Not all A2 is the same.

 

[shqxk]

If you looking for steel that will hold very fine edge then the super fine grain at very high hardness steel like White steel, 52100, W2 or AEB-L for stainless properly your best bet.

 

[JTknives]

I have gotten into the habit of cryo soaking everything especially high aloy steels. It seams like in the past that people said A2 does not benefit from cryo. I love science

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

I have gotten into the habit of cryo soaking everything especially high aloy steels. It seams like in the past that people said A2 does not benefit from cryo. I love science

I have said that in the past. I was wrong. *shrug*

 

[Willie71]

Ya I know I know I'm breaking all the rules as usual haha. No but seriously I won't be using it to chop anything large just small branches. Maybe might pull her out for some bushwhacking need be. I have thought about 3v myself but it's hard to find a maker in Canada who's familiar with it. Also iv been under the impression that 3v would be difficult to sharpen comparatively? Good choice on that bk9 I had a bk2 and it screamed to be used. Good thinking on the field scalpel kit I'll have to remember that one.

I'm familiar with 3v and z-wear. Send me an e-mail if you want to discuss a project.