Can Anyone Enlighten Us Of The Danger

ghorka

ghorka

Joined
Jul 7, 2002
Messages
140
hi i was wonderin if any of you guys out there,could enlighten about the dangers of bears, while out walkin + campin in the wilds of america an other places.
i saw a documentry on grizzly +black bears at salmon season, the guys just stayed still an let the bears come right near em, in some cases as close as 6-7 ft, then the bears just ambled off.
another storey i read in readers digest however had a rather different end.
a guy was doing a photographic study of grizzly bear families, and had done so on many previous occassions with no incedents.
this time however he failed to turn up so they sent a search party out for him. they came accross a grissly scene, apparently he was taking a photo of a grizzly mother an two cubs they were approximatly 70 yards away, he took 3 photos in quick succession, 1st was mother looking at him,2nd was mother charging, 3rd off the ground as he dropped the camera,that grizzly moved like an express train they estimated that it was moving at around 40-50 kilometers an hour, the guy apparently dropped the camera an tryed to spring into a tree, the grizzly dragged him down an consumed him, they deduced this by the tell tale claw marks on the tree an blood an gore around, they later had the photos from his camera developed.

now this brings me to some questions.1- how prevelent are bear attacks.
2- do you often encounter them while hikeing ect.
3-is what they say right about how fast these big bears can run???
another phrase used was that they can outrun a horse.??
4-they say you should curl up an play dead, rather than fight.??
HOW THE BLOODY HELL DO YOU PLAY DEAD WHEN A GRIZZLY BEAR IS TEARIN YOU TO PIECES.??
i know its been done cos i have read some true life bear attack accounts.
one poor guy played dead, the bear ripped his back open exposing his spine, kidneys ect, bit his legs an arms, breaking them in the process,he stayed still curled up as best he could, the bear left of after a while, then decided it wasant hungry at that time and proceeded to bury him, for a snack later i presume. the guy waited for about an hour then started to ectricate himself from the shallow grave.???
you guessed it the bear returned just as he was crawlin out, more bites an pawings, again he played dead, was interned again.for later.
this time he waited hours then crawled out again an skeedaddled at a rather slow pace.the story goes on to relate his terrable struggle to crawl back to help. then at the end he shows his injuries. MY GOD HALF HIS FACE WAS GONE, HIS BACK A MESS OF GREAT BITES AN SCARS,GREAT LUMPS OF FLESH MISSING FROM THIES, ARMS LEGS, BUTTOCKS ECT.

this guy must have had a hell of a will to live, he was one tough ombre,[maybee thats why the bear buried him-TO TUFF.]
any way have any of you guys had near misses ect, do you carry firearms when in the woods,ect.
WE ARE LUCKY HERE IN AUSTRALIA THE ONLY THINGS THAT MIGHT EAT YOU HEREARE CROCODILES,AND WILD PIGS.
:) :) :)
 
ghorka:

I'm no expert on this, but I list below some things as I see it. Others may correct me.

1) All wild animals are unpredictable.

2) When camping, don't store your food near where you sleep. There is also some lore that bears may be attracted by the scent of women at "that time of the month".

3) Bears are F*CK*NG big. And strong. And much faster than you.

4) If you're not hunting/stalking in bear country, be noisy, so the bears can avoid you. They want to.

5) Bears with cubs are dangerous. Period. No exceptions.

6) If you get between mamma bear and the cubs, or she somehow thinks you threaten the cubs, you're in some very,very deep $H1T.

7) The "play dead" trick has worked for many people--if you aren't armed and can't kill the bear it's a good last resort. But again, all bets are off if cubs are near--or the bear is starving.

8) If you find yourself near bear cubs, do your best to move away, the way you came in is probably the best way out unless mamma bear has moved there.

BTW, If you live near a coastal area, it's an equally bad idea to get between a sea lion/large seal and the ocean. Just as bear can move surprisingly fast in the forest, one of these critters can move surprisingly fast over slippery seaweed covered rocks. And they both can bite a large salmon in half. I reckon getting between a croc and the water is also a bad idea?

If I'm mistaken on any of the above, please correct me.
 
Firkin summed up most of my knowlegde of bears. I camp and backback a lot on the east coast of the US so there are no Grizzlies to worry about. The black bear is smaller and supposedly less aggressive. When camping though, we hang our food from a high tree branch well away from the tents. BRING NO FOOD INTO THE TENT, EVER. The smell may linger or get into the fabric. In all my camping and backpacking, I have not seen a bear, but have seen many signs of bear activity. They want to avoid humans for the most part. A bear with cubs though and all bets are off. A hungry bear accostomed to human activity can be dangerous too. In some parts of bear country, bears have broken into houses to get food. They get used to people being around quickly and lose their fear. They are frequent raiders of garbage cans and dumpsters. In some areas, these bears are a real nuisance and are usually destroyed or relocated. A bear is fast, I don't know if they can outrun a horse but in a short burst it would be close. You aussies got all the dangerous snakes though. More venemous species than non-venemous if I remember right. I will take a chance encounter with a black bear over a taipan or tiger snake any day.;)
 
As I have heard it, the general rule for bears is:

black bear, fight back. They can be bluffed just like a cougar.

grizzly bear, play dead. The griz is probably defending his territory, and if he/she thinks you are dead, will generally leave you alone. Of course, if the griz is hungry, you're toast.

I saw a documentary on Public TV here about the Craighead brothers who studied grizzlies at Yellowstone for years in the 50's. They claim that an adult male grizzly can EASILY run 50 yards in 3 seconds and lift 1,000 lbs in it's jaws above it's head. I doubt that it could do both at the same time, though... The running I can believe, the lifting seems high to me. I have no doubt that a griz could lift a full sized elk above it's head, though.

In all the years of camping I've done here in Colorado, I've only come across one bear (black), and no cougars (that I know of). ;)
 
Again, out of my league. Only close encounters with bears were up at Yellowstone where the bears are very used to humans and have learned it's easier just to steal food from camps than try to eat the humans. A couple got very interested in some food I had stored in the trunk of the car but didn't seem interested in me at all.
 
..Black and Brown bears in Pennsylvania. Place called Bob's trading post, which is an ice cream shop in the middle of the great woods of th area, near national forests and such.
The bears would come around in broad daylight, so we could eat ice cream and watch the bears go thru the empty ice cream tubs in the dumpster. They were pretty calm around people, and back in those days, people were taught to maintain a healthy distance, and not to approach the bears ans such. (Nowadays, most idiots would probably walk up and mess with them, but at least they'd "get it on tape.")

When my dad an me would go bowhunting in PA, we'd take along a buddy who had a hi caliber pistol (.357mag or .44mag). He's been messed with before in bow season. He carries because a bear once smelled his packed lunch, and pulled him out of a treestand to get it. When he got pulled out, he shoved the food at the bear and threw it. the bear was more interested in the food, and he got away.
We went hunting with this guy, same area, and we were out for buck season. saw tons of doe, and also a black bear. It came along, and we were holding perfectly still. It came within 10 feet of me, and it looked HUGE (I was like 16 at the time). It went to Gary,the guy with the gun, and sniffed his dangling toes. It left after not much time, uninterested in a bunch of humans wearing deer cologne. I dunno if he even scented us humans.

Bears seem pretty well cemented into their ecosystems. I have never been attacked by a bear, and that is because they know humans are dangerous. Also, I think bears and most other organisms in the ecosystem know there's no way to win a fight to the death, there are no bear hospitals in nature. Bears are cool. Still, mind yer uncle Firkin's rules, and you should be fine. I, too, prefer bear county to snake country (although there were plenty of mildly venomous snakes in PA, like copperheads and water moccasins...

Keith
En Ferro Veritas
 
Ghorka:

A friend of mine was attacked by a grizzly while he was doing summer volunteer service up in Alaska. This was about 15 years back.

According to my friend, the bear attacked while he and a companion were doing trail maintenance. They rounded a bend in the trail, and the bear charged from cover. He says that neither of them knew the bear was there, and it was on him before he could react.

He survived by rolling into a ball, while yelling at the top of his lungs. His companion also made a commotion. The bear retreated, but not before taking a chunk out of my friend's right calf and leaving some serious claw wounds in his left side. (I got the story when I asked about the injuries. My friend usually keeps them covered, and I had known him for several years before I saw him in short sleeves one day.)

I don't know much about bears, but I can tell you for certain that I would never walk in grizzly country without a large something that went "bang".

S.
 
On one visit to my parents, we spent quite a while looking for a garbage can a black bear had beaten the trash collectors to. Never did find it. Why the critter bothered to drag the messily emptied container through thick brush to who knows where beats the heck outta me.

Nice location, Bobwhite! Watch out for that guy in the yellow mask:)
 
I carry a SIG 229 in .40. Does anyone know if this would kill/hurt a Black bear or Grizzly? Would it be enough for you to get away? I have my doubts. I think I will be getting a .454 casull or a .375 H&H mag when I go into bear country from now on! It is rare to even see a bear let alone be attacked but I'm not a person who says it won't happen to me! Always be prepaired!

How about bear mace? Does it work? I think I'll just stick with a high power rifle!
 
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13068: .45 Super for Black Bears, close-up
06/17/02-9:10 PM Posted by: cheapsk8 from Shooters.com

Pitts,
I usually keep quiet and listen, as that is the true path to wisdom, but I feel I may be able to add something here. I live in Northern Ontario, black bear capital of the world. Ever since the provincial government decided to ban the spring bear hunt for purely financial reasons (read that as "bribe from a rich bunny-hugger"), the bear population has taken off as the majority of hunted bears were killed in the spring. Up in Timmins, Ontario, the police were shooting them in front of the movie theater, downtown. I know this as I lived a couple of blocks over and heard the shots. I was pondering the same question as you. Do I load up my .45 Norinco(my only center fire) with new recoil and firing pin springs, get some Super brass and have at it, or do kick out for a .44 Mag? I ended up going out and buying a Smith 29(fantastic price for a .44). I`ll digress on why in a second. First off, when it comes to black bear they move quicker than anyone can imagine. They are not a huge 1200lb animal as someone mentioned. They are 200-300lbs on average for a male bear(there are alot bigger, as smaller, but this is a good average. Now a bear has four different response mode to humans. Startled (flee), startled (fight), predatory and defensive( mother with cubs as example). Startled flee is the one you hope for. This is where a bear senses you coming and leaves the area, or you surprise him and he takes off running. If this happens, leave the area quickly as he may go "wait a minute, this is my area and I`m bigger". You do not want to be there when he comes back. Startled fight somtimes results in threats like jaw popping, bluff charges and ground swatting. If this happens, make yourself look big, talk firmly to the bear, and slowly back away. Startled fight often gets a good mauling. If this happens, play dead and the attack will cease quickly as the bear percieves the threat neutralized, and just wants to go about his buisiness ( yeah, I know it would be hard not to do anything). If the attack is prolonged or turns into a buffet, fight back with everything you have. Predatory bears will actually stalk there victims, evaluating the threat level. One sure sign a bear is wanting to eat you(up), is when he pretends to not look at you, and slowly advances in your direction, even in a non-direct route. Bear survival courses teach you to shoot the black bear at this point if talking and noise does not discourage him(if armed). If attacked by a predatory bear FIGHT BACK. Defensive bears are extremely unpredictable and discretion rules at that point. Now these are just some of the basic rules, and of course nothing ever follows the rules. But they do help in our selection of firearms. Also does bear anatomy. You are likely only going to get two shots. Straight at you FAST, or body towards you head turned sideways( predatory advance). A bears brain is the size of your fist, set far back in the skull and really low. To disable a bear to the point where he can no longer cause you harm, you must hit the brain or the spine. I almost always agree with my friend Berz, except this time( hey, Berz, it`s your Canuck friend, how`s the 597 holding up? I think we`re the only two to get good ones, heh, heh). Forget the shoulder. Even if you could hit it, a bear can still mess you up with three legs. I once knew of a three legged dog who could run about as fast as a four legged one. A shot through the side of the head below and just in front of the ears will hit the brain. A shot just over the head of an oncoming bear, or through the nose cavity(the best shot) or the mouth will severe the spine. Right between the eyes with a good bullet will take out the brain. Remember, If you hit the eyes, you hit nothing. The ocular lens is a straight cavity right through the length of the skull with no skull plate behind it. While I have no doubt of the Super`s ability to neutralize the bear, I worry about two things. Bullet design being one. If the bullet is a round nose design for good feed reliabilty, the chances of the bullet deflecting off of the shallow angled skull of the bear is greatly increased. If the bullet has a wide, sharp shoulder as to pentrate deeply and straight, feed reliability is compromised in any autoloader if added to other factors( cold, thick lube, lack of lube to prevent freezing). And lets face it, the Super is taking a standard .45 auto past it`s design perameters. Now I know we all have our pet auto`s which never jam, I have my own in the Norinco that has gone 1600 rounds with out a single jam even when new. It feeds wadcutters too. But I am not taking a chance when it comes to my life. Also, if a bear is on top of you, an auto will only get one shot as the slide will not be able to cycle properly when pressed up against the bear. In fact, if you are making a contact shot and push the slide back even a little, it does not go bang. Take the revolver. It will be the one to most likely perform when needed. I hope this helps. Cheapsk8

from:http://talk.hunters.com/room_134/Jun172002.cfm

Kis


:rolleyes:
 
Bear spray is a "yes and no" sort of item. FIrst off, you have to use it correctly, ie, point it the right way, and actually hit your target (and try to avoid high wind/rain, etc). Like some people, some bears are unaffected. New studies also urge users to quickly leave the area after spraying a bear. The initial spray might send one away yelping, but in a few hrs, other bears start wandering to the site, attraqcted by, you guessed it, that nice peppery smell.:rolleyes:
 
SkagSig40,

I think the Sig would only enrage the bear. The rifle is the way to go, if you can get it into action quick enough. That's the problem, you hear all these stories, "the bear was on me before I knew there was a bear", no gun or pepper spray will ever stop that. You gotta be quick...

Good luck with ordering the Casull, they are awesome. IIRC, the bullet is only about 200 fps slower than a 45-70. They should be enough for anything here in Colorado, either 2 or 4 legged. :D

You definitely get to feel some recoil when you light the fuse...
 
I have seen some pictures of people who have killed elephants and Rinos with the .454 casull!!!:eek:
 
There's a book...

Bear Attacks their causes and avoidance

by Stephen Herrero

ISBN 0-941130-82-7

All the information about bear attacks you've wanted to know and some you don't want to know.

Prolly in yer local library.
 
Bears would generally try to avoid you. If you don't want to see them in the woods make a lot of noise. Yes they are quick and will reach 50 km/hr for short distances.

It is generally a bad idea to flee from a bear. They're instinct is to chase you.

I would not want to stop a bear with a .40 if other options are available. Most .40 loads do not offer the penetration required to slow down or stop a bear. A pump shotgun with slugs or buckshot would be a good bet.

The chances of being attacked by a bear is really slim. Bees and deer have killed more people than bears.

Will
 
Had a Jr High Science teacher who was into the whole outdoor adventure thing, always said the best thing to have was a pump action shotgun with slugs when worried about bears. When first spotting the bear fire one shot in the air, and if that doesnt scare it off fire the next shot at the hip in the hopes of slowing it down. He said with all the bone and muscle it would be hard to get a clean kill. Then again this was about polar bears, and well he didnt claim to be any kind of bear expert. Just a random bear story in the middle of class.
 
Originally posted by SkagSig40
I have seen some pictures of people who have killed elephants and Rinos with the .454 casull!!!:eek:
Click to expand...

They've got bigger 'nads than me! :eek:

I've also read the story about the bear killed by the farmer with the khukuri (here we go again). Ever see the skeleton of a bear, and how thick those bones and vertebrae are? I'm still amazed that this could be done by a human.
 
The best weapon in any fight is your brain. The best way to fight is to avoid it. I may not be an expert but I have been hunting in Colorado for over 20 years. I always see bear sign when after elk or deer and usually when I am hiking or fishing. I do not hunt predators, they have their place in the wild and I will not willingly hurt one. In all my time hunting and campig I have seen 3 black bears I have also been within 10 feet of one and never seen it in scrub oak. I was about 20 and had a 5 round 30.06 bar with me. I picked up a rock and threw it at a tree near the bear. the bear started moving off and I kept next to a larger tree. When I met up with my dad on the other side of the ridge I noticed that my bolt had not closed all the way and would not have fired. I have seen 1 cougar for all of 4 seconds. I have been screamed at following fresh deer sign up a canyon. It was letting me know it was there and I was an unwelcome guest. the safety came off and I backed down the canyon. Most predators will circle you to see what you are I have even had a buck do it to me. 95% of the time you will never know that they are there. Are there Grizzlies in Colorado? Maybe, maybe not. I am more worried about the people than the animals. I always carry both knife and gun when I hike. Would I shoot at a bears skull? No. There is documented cases where the bullets have bounced off grizzly skulls at point blank range. My new carry is a Para .45 I have 14 rounds of .45 acp for man or beast. My camp gun is a 12 gauge semi loaded with 1 round of buck shot and 4 300 gr. copper slugs. If I can't avoid a fight there is going to be some very unhappy individuals, be they from the forest or the city. Enjoy your time in the outdoors and be safe and you won't have a problem.
Rick
 
bloody capitals
yes thanks bruise i will ask for that book next time i go down the library, great stuff.regards ghorka:)ps thanks also you other guys for good info.
 
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