Can cut phone book paper but can't cut hair?

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Aug 31, 2012
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Hello y'all I need some help. I use dmt diamond stones, Coarse fine extra fine, then I strop on my strop man strop. I can cut phone book paper like butter but I can not shave any hair is there any reason for that? Are my angles wrong? Any tips would be appreciated.
 
Do you need to shave with your knife or cut things? For me, while most of my edges get to arm shaving sharp, not all do. But all slice phone book or news paper. For the most part, my knives, outdoor or kitchen, need to slice not shave.
 
Adding a micro bevel and stropping with very light force has become my recipe for success in shave-sharp edges to wow the half-knive buddies with.
 
Hone as you are doing but don't strop. Sometimes stropping seems to take the 'bite' off the edge.
 
Have you ever been able to shave arm hair before with one of your edges?

If not bring your edge angle up (steeper) slightly and give her a few more light/soft passes. Then test and repeat. Heck you might have to bring the angle down shallower. But get the knife to slice paper, then adjust your angle, give it a few light passes, test and repeat if necessary.

You might need to strop less... Dunno.. just experiment.

I have also put hair popping edges on peoples knives before and then they try to shave their own arm hair and not be able to. Basically because they were not applying appropriate pressure or were going at too shallow of an angle. So that might be an issue too.

Just dont cut your arm off or put your eye out.

And to reiterate what CSG was saying, (and this may be blasphemy) if your blade cuts well, you're doing fine. But I understand that attaining a hair popping edge is definitely a milestone. Thats usually where I put all my knife edges. If it will shave arm hair then its sharp.
 
it is possible that you still have a little bit of a burr left that will cut paper but not hair. drag the blade across your thumbnail and see if it drags any. if you need any more help i would be glad to give you a call if you send me your number.
 
A knife that cuts phone book paper like "butter" should definitely be shaving hair. Do you have a way to make videos? That would help a lot to see what you are dealing with. There are a lot of ways to interpret "cutting paper like butter" and "shaving hair."
 
Hello y'all I need some help. I use dmt diamond stones, Coarse fine extra fine, then I strop on my strop man strop. I can cut phone book paper like butter but I can not shave any hair is there any reason for that? Are my angles wrong? Any tips would be appreciated.

This is similar behavior to what I see sometimes. I think the biggest variable is the hair itself; if it's very fine (like my arm hair), sometimes an edge that glides effortlessly through phonebook paper may still not be thin enough (at the apex) to cut hair cleanly, if at all. This is especially true with coarser-grained steels, or steels with a high content of relatively larger carbides (S30V is a perfect example; the vanadium carbides are relatively small at 2-4 microns, but still much bigger than the grains of simple steel in the surrounding matrix). Finer-grained steels like 1095 and Case's CV are much, much easier to put a wicked-sharp & very thin edge on, and the proof will be in the cutting & shaving. Don't know what steel you're attempting to sharpen, but if you try your hand at a simpler carbon steel (1095, CV, or Opinel's 'carbone' XC90 steel), you might get a clearer impression if your technique, tools or methods are working or not. These steels are very easy to grind & hone, with minimal interference from carbides, and easy burr cleanup. If sharpening these on diamond hones, I've found it's better to stick with the finer grits from beginning to end, UNLESS the blade is very large & thick, and a lot of metal needs to come off. Coarse or XC diamond can be used for that, but the refining stages are really dependent on the finer hones (F/EF/EEF, and stropping with green compound and/or bare leather).

Edge angles greater than 30° inclusive will be a little more challenging to make an edge shave as well (sometimes). That's where the difference in grain size will really reveal itself at the apex.


David
 
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Please excuse the minor hijack here. David, I realize this is an awfully broad question, but how would you compare the carbon steels you mention with some of the softer stainless steels such as AUS-6, AUS-8, 12C27, 420HC, etc., as far as being fine-grained, easy to sharpen, capable of holding an edge, etc.?

Thanks,

Andrew
 
I just recently found out that not all hair is the same thickness.

Some people have thick strands and some thin strands.

People with black hair tend to have thicker hair than blond, not always but mostly.

I can't pop or whittle any of my hair but I can whittle blond hair easily.
 
Please excuse the minor hijack here. David, I realize this is an awfully broad question, but how would you compare the carbon steels you mention with some of the softer stainless steels such as AUS-6, AUS-8, 12C27, 420HC, etc., as far as being fine-grained, easy to sharpen, capable of holding an edge, etc.?

Thanks,

Andrew

Most fundamentally, higher carbon content is what allows steel to be hardened to a greater degree, and therefore is what makes for better edge-holding. Heat-treat is equally important in that regard. In ascending order of carbon only (low to high), these steels might be ordered like this: 420HC < AUS-6 < 12C27 < AUS-8 < CV < 1095.

The biggest differences otherwise, between the carbon steels and stainless, is the complete lack of carbides in these particular carbon steels. This means the carbon steels will abrade (grind) much more easily than stainless, because the chromium carbides (and/or vanadium carbides) in the stainless are much harder. On diamond hones especially, simple carbon steel like 1095 or CV can feel almost buttery-soft when grinding it. That's due to the lack of carbides in these steels. Additionally, a combination of relatively high chromium and relatively low carbon in the simpler stainless steels (like 420HC) will usually tend to make these steels more ductile, which translates to burrs & wires that are more stubborn to remove (they bend a lot, but are more difficult to break off). The slightly better stainless, with a little more carbon in relation to the chromium (12C27, AUS-8) are usually a little easier to deal with, in terms of cleaning up the burrs. And with 420HC, a small increase in RC hardness can also make it easier to remove the burrs (they become brittle enough to break away more easily). Best example for this is to compare Case's 'Tru-Sharp' stainless (420HC) with Buck's slightly harder version of the same steel. Case heat-treats theirs to ~55 HRC, give or take, and Buck does it at ~57-58 HRC. The difference that I most often see between these two is, the burrs clean up much more easily on Buck's blades. In terms of edge-holding, I don't have any complaints about either of them, with the additional qualifier that it's important to make sure the ductile burrs/wires are completely cleaned up on the Case blades. If not, the burrs/wires tend to fold over in use, and make the edge seem to 'dull' quicker.

Any of the stainless steels you listed are very easy to sharpen, using something like silicon carbide (either stones or wet/dry sandpaper, which is my favorite for these). These are all what I'd call 'middle of the road' stainless steels, with the 12C27 and AUS-8 probably in the upper half of that mix (higher carbon content). In particular, Sandvik's steel (12C27) is manufactured with a very pure process, which produces very fine grain and therefore finer edges (think of Opinel's or Mora's stainless blades).

In stropping, the 1095 and CV respond GREATLY to green compound, followed by bare leather. Also works pretty well with the lower-carbon stainless like 420HC. The slightly higher abrasion-resistance of stainless with a little more carbon seems to respond well to stropping with aluminum oxide or silicon carbide compounds.


David
 
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