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Can daily stropping avoid sharpening?
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Matteo Escobar
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What Buzzbait said. It would work for a while, but eventually you would need to re-sharpen it. At the very least it will keep your knife it's sharpest between major re-working sessions.
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I agree with what Buzz and Matteo said. I do a lot of whittling/carving and I regularly touch up the three knives that I use on a strop and green Verias compound. It definitely extends the period between sharpening. These three knives are of different steels. I tried using a strop without the compound and it did a good job, but it works better with the compound, and gives me more time between sharpening. Another thing that helps me a lot is something I started doing months ago after seeing a post by Cliff Stamp about using a double bevel. I sharpen the primary bevel at 17 deg. and then do a secondary bevel at 20 deg. This combination works better for stropping and for touching up a blade on a stone,IMHO. Of course I don't do this on a convex bevel.
Cliff Stamp
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Cardboard and leather are not abrasive enough to actually remove any significant amount of material from the edge of the knife and will just act to align it. This will sharpen it, but you will note that the edge keeps getting duller faster, and if you do it for a long time the edge will overweaken and start to crack.
It is better to use a buffing compound like Walt noted which in effect creates a hone. The edge will still be aligned but will also be polish preventing weakening by excessive metal fatigue. If you like the edge with more tooth, load the leather with a suitable grit of SiC instead.
-Cliff
It is better to use a buffing compound like Walt noted which in effect creates a hone. The edge will still be aligned but will also be polish preventing weakening by excessive metal fatigue. If you like the edge with more tooth, load the leather with a suitable grit of SiC instead.
-Cliff
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pahl,
stropping is an edge aligner as well as an abrasive process. Steeling is great when you just want to align the edge. Stropping with compound is actually an abrasive process as well, so it will remove a bit of steel as it aligns too.
As Cliff noted, if you like a toothy edge then stropping isn't the best option. I like to strop a bit after using a rough grit to sharpen- I find that polished teeth slice and push cut nicely. Stropping is also a nice way to make sure verything is all lined up. But I am careful only to use a few strokes. THe more you strop, the more polished your edge gets (yeah, to a point) and the more you wear away those microteeth.
Another nice way to get things is to step thigns up, and then back up to the grit you want. I like to sharpen on my belt sander, buff the edge on my buffer, and then do a few strokes on my sharpmaker. I find that the edge put on is a very nice consistent edge without any problem spots. With a strop, you could sharpen on a coarse and fine hone, strop your edge a whole lot and then go back to your fine hone for a couple of strokes. This sounds like a lot of effort, but I find that it puts on a cery consistent, problem spot free edge without me having to check the edge a lot. Sharpne, buff, apply teeth.
Generally speaking, I think steelign should be done before you go to a strop. But you do no want to over steel, as CLiff said. SO for my whittling knife, I strop. FOr my EDC blades, I'll steel 'em now and then.
stropping is an edge aligner as well as an abrasive process. Steeling is great when you just want to align the edge. Stropping with compound is actually an abrasive process as well, so it will remove a bit of steel as it aligns too.
As Cliff noted, if you like a toothy edge then stropping isn't the best option. I like to strop a bit after using a rough grit to sharpen- I find that polished teeth slice and push cut nicely. Stropping is also a nice way to make sure verything is all lined up. But I am careful only to use a few strokes. THe more you strop, the more polished your edge gets (yeah, to a point) and the more you wear away those microteeth.
Another nice way to get things is to step thigns up, and then back up to the grit you want. I like to sharpen on my belt sander, buff the edge on my buffer, and then do a few strokes on my sharpmaker. I find that the edge put on is a very nice consistent edge without any problem spots. With a strop, you could sharpen on a coarse and fine hone, strop your edge a whole lot and then go back to your fine hone for a couple of strokes. This sounds like a lot of effort, but I find that it puts on a cery consistent, problem spot free edge without me having to check the edge a lot. Sharpne, buff, apply teeth.
Generally speaking, I think steelign should be done before you go to a strop. But you do no want to over steel, as CLiff said. SO for my whittling knife, I strop. FOr my EDC blades, I'll steel 'em now and then.
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I carry 1 knife with a polished edge, currently it's my newest one, the CS ti-lite. doesn't see a stone at all, just the strop.
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It can be used to :-
1)Actually sharpen - like any abrasive you apply to the edge it will cut metal, though slowly and thats how you can maintain an edge with it. It of course will work FASTER with some sort of polishing compound. The catch - the base (leather usually) is semi-soft so it cuts with a sort of convex profile and if done regularly will gradually make your edge more and more obtuse in angle. Done this way, yes, the edge will be sharp but the edge bevel might sooner or later become impractical to cut unless the blade thickness at the edge is quite thin. I suggest that stropping to keep an edge sharp should onlybe done occasionally, when you NEED a shaving sharp edge - and thats actualyl rare. I prefer steeling for regular "stay-sharp" feel between sharpening.
2) To remove the wire edge from a freshly resharpened edge. This gets rid of that floppy band of steel that folds over when it touches anything. That will give you the razor sharp edge to begin with. This is what I generally do stropping for.
Aside from the "boasting rights", I think that a really fine razor sharp edge is over-kill on the majority of working knives that need a nice compromise between a clean edge and a toothy ripping cut.
Just my 2+cents. Jason.
1)Actually sharpen - like any abrasive you apply to the edge it will cut metal, though slowly and thats how you can maintain an edge with it. It of course will work FASTER with some sort of polishing compound. The catch - the base (leather usually) is semi-soft so it cuts with a sort of convex profile and if done regularly will gradually make your edge more and more obtuse in angle. Done this way, yes, the edge will be sharp but the edge bevel might sooner or later become impractical to cut unless the blade thickness at the edge is quite thin. I suggest that stropping to keep an edge sharp should onlybe done occasionally, when you NEED a shaving sharp edge - and thats actualyl rare. I prefer steeling for regular "stay-sharp" feel between sharpening.
2) To remove the wire edge from a freshly resharpened edge. This gets rid of that floppy band of steel that folds over when it touches anything. That will give you the razor sharp edge to begin with. This is what I generally do stropping for.
Aside from the "boasting rights", I think that a really fine razor sharp edge is over-kill on the majority of working knives that need a nice compromise between a clean edge and a toothy ripping cut.
Just my 2+cents. Jason.
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Yeah, I agree with what Jason said.
I've tried stropping knives before. The polished edge it left didn't seem to last very long. It also didn't cut too well for a lot of tasks it was used for. (However, it did cut really well for a few tasks.)
Strops are great for straight razors. For a general use knife though, I don't really use strops anymore.
I've tried stropping knives before. The polished edge it left didn't seem to last very long. It also didn't cut too well for a lot of tasks it was used for. (However, it did cut really well for a few tasks.)
Strops are great for straight razors. For a general use knife though, I don't really use strops anymore.
Cliff Stamp
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cerulean :
Stropping doesn't have to polish, the strop can be loaded with any grit you desire. You can get SiC lapping compounds that are more coarse than any benchstone if you desire.
Pahl, steeling is a very aggressive aligning operation will indeed act to greatly reduce stropping time for the reason you noted. However care needs to be taken as steeling can create a large roll in the knife edge. This roll is then very difficult to remove on the strop which eliminates burrs and rolls poorly as it is edge-trailing honing and burr / roll removal is best done with edge-into honing.
If the edge is that heavily rolled that you would want to try to steel it before stropping, odds are good that it would benefit from a little more abrasive honing to remove all the weakened metal. If you just steeled it and then stropped it, the edge would indeed be sharp but all that weak metal would make up the edge, this isn't a good recipe for high edge retention and edge durability. Of course if your strop is loaded with a very aggressive cutting compound this isn't a problem as it will cut any weak metal off quickly.
Use of a very fine hone (slightly more coarse than the load on the strop) with a couple of edge-into passes, periodically will greatly reduce the roll of the edge by eliminating weaken metal. The edge can then be finished on the strop and maintained that way. The more frequent the blade is used for heavy cutting on hard materials the more you will want to act to reduce the edge roll.
-Cliff
Stropping doesn't have to polish, the strop can be loaded with any grit you desire. You can get SiC lapping compounds that are more coarse than any benchstone if you desire.
Pahl, steeling is a very aggressive aligning operation will indeed act to greatly reduce stropping time for the reason you noted. However care needs to be taken as steeling can create a large roll in the knife edge. This roll is then very difficult to remove on the strop which eliminates burrs and rolls poorly as it is edge-trailing honing and burr / roll removal is best done with edge-into honing.
If the edge is that heavily rolled that you would want to try to steel it before stropping, odds are good that it would benefit from a little more abrasive honing to remove all the weakened metal. If you just steeled it and then stropped it, the edge would indeed be sharp but all that weak metal would make up the edge, this isn't a good recipe for high edge retention and edge durability. Of course if your strop is loaded with a very aggressive cutting compound this isn't a problem as it will cut any weak metal off quickly.
Use of a very fine hone (slightly more coarse than the load on the strop) with a couple of edge-into passes, periodically will greatly reduce the roll of the edge by eliminating weaken metal. The edge can then be finished on the strop and maintained that way. The more frequent the blade is used for heavy cutting on hard materials the more you will want to act to reduce the edge roll.
-Cliff
I appreciate this is a bit of a digression guys, but just in passing kind of thing:
Jason in relation to what you say in (1) above there. What is your opinion concerning a full convex blade then? I may have misread but I get the impression that they may not be to your liking. If so, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.
Jason in relation to what you say in (1) above there. What is your opinion concerning a full convex blade then? I may have misread but I get the impression that they may not be to your liking. If so, I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.
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I can envision what you are discussing and learning - many thanks.
So far, stropping can remove steel with the proper grit; it's an aligner as well. But eventually a knife's edge needs to be reprofiled for the type of cutting you intend to so. Otherwise, with unabated stropping, the edge material thins out and, with leather and it's softness, rounds out that will adversely affect cutting.
What is steeling? Is that using a regular flat bench hone?
So far, stropping can remove steel with the proper grit; it's an aligner as well. But eventually a knife's edge needs to be reprofiled for the type of cutting you intend to so. Otherwise, with unabated stropping, the edge material thins out and, with leather and it's softness, rounds out that will adversely affect cutting.
What is steeling? Is that using a regular flat bench hone?
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Switched,
Though it is true I am not Jason, I think the point about stropping a "regular" blade (one whose edge is either flat-ground or hollow-ground) in the normal manner (holding the blade at an angle with the spine not touching the strop) will eventually change the angle of the the edge to one that is thicker than what the original edge was and much thicker than what the original user desired.
Were you to write a soliloquy, you can now discard the premise "All convex edges are desireable" as false and seek another premise.
Convex edges can be good, but it's hard to extol the virtues of any very thick edge bevel whether it's convex or flat.
Though it is true I am not Jason, I think the point about stropping a "regular" blade (one whose edge is either flat-ground or hollow-ground) in the normal manner (holding the blade at an angle with the spine not touching the strop) will eventually change the angle of the the edge to one that is thicker than what the original edge was and much thicker than what the original user desired.
Were you to write a soliloquy, you can now discard the premise "All convex edges are desireable" as false and seek another premise.
Convex edges can be good, but it's hard to extol the virtues of any very thick edge bevel whether it's convex or flat.
Cliff Stamp
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thombrogan :
You would not do this for maintenance sharpening. This is only necessary to remove a burr. You can strop and keep the same edge profile. Don't press to hard and keep the edge flat to the leather (or whatever).
-Cliff
You would not do this for maintenance sharpening. This is only necessary to remove a burr. You can strop and keep the same edge profile. Don't press to hard and keep the edge flat to the leather (or whatever).
-Cliff
Well I was about to put up an "Ah I see now thanks Thom" but have just caught this post of Cliff's. Not as sure now I do see quite as clearly as I thought I did, although have a feeling...
For heaven's sake no-one come in at this point with secret sharpening (or stropping) hint #589502. I'm not sure I could cope.
For heaven's sake no-one come in at this point with secret sharpening (or stropping) hint #589502. I'm not sure I could cope.
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Sorry Switched. Couldn't resist.