Can factory seconds have a suboptimal heat treat?

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stillshot2

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Jun 6, 2014
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Just curious if that could be a reason for a Spyderco to be marked as a second? I've owned two and could not tell what made them seconds, except one doesn't hold an edge well at all, but possibly that's just because it's H1 steel?
 
I'm too lazy to search for it, but I sem to recall Sal Glesser once stating that the 2nds were perfectly functional knives with minor cosmetic or other production flaws that wouldn't normally pass muster. I seriously doubt that Spyderco would knowingly release a knife with an inferior heat treatment since thats more than a minor cosmetic flaw and they're known for offering various steels at their optimal heat treatment. I'm sure accidents can happen, but it wouldn't be my first thought.

I don't have any personal experience with H1, so I'll have to defer to other experts, but I would assume this particular steel is the culprit. Everything I've read about H1 steel indicates that it has poor edge retention, especially in a plain edge. Evidently, serrated blades appear to perform much better (perhaps due to the edge work-hardening during use).

Which knife are you having issues with, and how do you sharpen it?
 
stillshot2 said:
Just curious if that could be a reason for a Spyderco to be marked as a second? I've owned two and could not tell what made them seconds, except one doesn't hold an edge well at all, but possibly that's just because it's H1 steel?
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How are you sharpening it and what kind of edge are trying to make?
 
In a word, no. A known heat treat issue gets them recalled and reworked or destroyed, not sold as seconds. H-1 is comparable to AUS8 for edge holding, so if you are used to VG-10, S30V or higher, you'll probably not be happy with it.
 
It's a first gen Pacific salt plain edge. I can usually get the edge back to newspaper or paper towel slicing sharp pretty easy with just a few passes on a ceramic rod but that sharpness is gone after even a few basic edc cutting tasks, not even abuse. I have tried the Spyderco brown triangle rods for a little more coarseness without much difference, so perhaps I should try one of my coarser whetstones? I have kept the factory angles, should I try to go more acute or will it roll easy? Perhaps I am spoiled by how nicely Magnacut and s30v take and hold an edge. And yes even vg10 seems like a significantly better in edge holding ability. I mainly bought this knife on a whim because of it's cool retro look but the military 2 salt I now have kinda takes all the pocket time.

My other second was an original military s30v and I loved the steel on that knife. It was so easy to sharpen which leads me back to my original question and wonder if it was heat treated softly since I have heard quite a few people saying it's tough to sharpen? It held it's edge well too, though, really felt similar in use to my Magnacut salt to be honest. Only sold it because I couldn't do tip down but memories of that knife want me to buy more s30v Spydercos before the steel becomes "too old" and put out to pasture.
 
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You might try resetting the edge angle. H-1 is strong and tough, but not as abrasion resistant as S30V. Use a coarse stone (DMT Extra Coarse works for me) and leave it at that. I've read about some people using dual grit sharpening, putting a coarse finish on one side and a very fine finish on the other side, but I've never tried that myself.

I have a LOT of seconds. A few have obvious issues, but most I couldn't figure out why they were seconds.
 
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Is the thought behind using a coarse stone to basically create microserrations, which H1 seems to benefit most from?
 
stillshot2 said:
Is the thought behind using a coarse stone to basically create microserrations, which H1 seems to benefit most from?
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Soft steels work better with lower grit.

It also applies to soft steel kitchen knives.
(Victorinox, Henkels, Forschner)

Not enough strength in the steel/HT to support a fine apex radius, once that apex tip deforms even with light use the edge is GONE.
 
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