Can handle materials be sent to HI for custom applications?

Drdan

Drdan

Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
1,390
In another thread, hollowdweller raised an interesting question: Has anyone ever sent a preferred handle material to HI to be used in the construction of their khukuri?

In the archives, I've read numerous posts reporting cracked horn and wood handles, shrunken wood handles, chipped handle material near the butt plate, handles that break due to incomplete filling with epoxy, and the ilk. I'd be very interested in supplying my own stabilized or cured raw material for the handle's manufacture... Being that my knife will be custom made anyway, I don't mind the added time factor or even the additional expense of the purchasing the material and shipping it off to wherever.
 
I wouldn't even think of sending them stabilized materials. Aren't lives in Nepal short enough already? Stabilized materials, and the related phenolic resin products(Micarta, etc) should never be worked without the proper safety equipment, which I can guarantee they don't have. PLus stabilized woods/synthetic handle materials tend to be noticably harder to work than the natural materials, which makes everything harder for htem. As was said in that thread, send them off to Terry Sisco if you want that done. Or even do it yourself. I'm working on one right now, doing a stacked bocote handle. It's not that hard to do this work yourself.
 
But I don't have any woodworking experience at all, and as I want the handle to be flasslessly executed, authentic, and with the customary carvings, it's logical to have it fashioned in Nepal by one of HI's craftsmen. I'm not parsimonious, but I do live in Italy, so it would hardly make sense to have the knife sent to me here, pay the Italian customs charges, send it to the U.S. for a better handle and then sent back to me again. Again, most importantly, I want the HI craftsmen to fashion the entire khukuri.

I'm not privy as to the type of safety equipment the handle maker has available, but regardless of the material, (stabilized or properly cured horn or wood), he would be wise to use some sort of mask to avoid breathing in dust. A handkerchief placed over the worker's mouth would be better than no protection at all, but on the other hand, I've many times seen welders, woodworkers, chemical plant workers, etc. in 3rd world countries working without any safety equipment whatsoever. The small cost of the needed safety equipment usually was not an issue... I'd gladly send a disposable mask to the artisan fabricating the handle, but would he likely don it, or care to know why he should?

If I had some nice properly cured wood or horn, could I get it to HI's craftsmen, and has anyone reading this post done so themselves?

Thanks!:confused:
 
As far as working with toxic materials, you should watch the Gurkha Steel video. It shows Kamis working for the "other" guys putting handles on khuks. After they manually drill a hole for the tang the Kami heats the tang and burns it in. He does this without protective gear and sits there and breathes the fumes made by this operation. Can't imagine what it would be like with something really hazardous!
If you're not a woodworker it would be advisable to let TSarki(Terry Sisco) do the job. He does great work at a reasonable price. Give him a call.
 
Obviously, wood dusts of any kind are potentially harmful if inhaled. Indeed, many are carcinogenic, possibly even some of the species used by HI's workers. If HI's workers are not protecting their eyesight and lungs, perhaps someone should be bring this up with HI. Prevention, not curing job induced diseases would indeed be HI's best form of health insurance. Protective goggles and protective inhalation masks are not expensive; curing the harmful consequences of not using them indubitably would be much more expensive. This would be great material for another thread...

I am not interested in shipping stabilized wood to Nepal. A thread related to handle materials suggested stabilized wood or horn or properly cured wood or horn as an alternative to the materials used for the handles at HI's factory in Nepal. I would personally prefer my khukuri's handle to be made of properly cured indigenous wood or horn. If this is a problem, I am interested in exploring the possibility of having a suitable handle material dispatched to HI.

Back to the question pertaining to this particular thread... Let me rephrase it so as to not trigger any inferences! As an option, could I send HI an natural, properly cured wood or other organic material to be used in making a handle for a custom khukuri? Thanks!
 
Bill is aware of the safety concerns
from his own experience there &
has previously commented on his
lack of impact in trying to promote
even the wearing of safety goggles.

Indeed, email Bill directly regarding
handle materials you might like to supply.
But expect the cost for such a khukuri to
be substantially higher, as previously mentioned.

A better email address is probably:
him imp @ aol . com
(remove spaces to use address)
which I believe is checked several times a day.
 
Originally posted by Drdan
I would personally prefer my khukuri's handle to be made of properly cured indigenous wood or horn.
Click to expand...

Most of the problems encountered by the wood handles isn't due to the improper curing of the material, but due to the differences in climate and the resulting humidity in different parts of the world. The khuks -Are- shipped to Reno Nevada which is a high and -very dry- locale and can remain there for some time and thus become acclimated to the conditions there.
If it's monsoon time in Nepal and dry in Reno it wouldn't take much time for the wood to shrink.
Any non-stabilised or natural material is apt to change at this junction of time.
Then when the khuk is sold and it arrives at its permanent location it has to become acclimated again. If it's a humid location the wood can swell a bit, but I have yet to have one do that. I file off the rough spots around the buttcap and let it go at that.
The horn probably reacts the same way to the same conditions, but I'm not familiar enough with the properties of horn to absolutely -know- that.
I do suspect that sometimes the horn may not be fully cured, but I'm reasonably certain the wood is properly seasoned each and every time.

As to getting Terry Sisco to do a handle for you out of an an artificial or stablised material that isn't a problem. Simply have Bill send the khuk to Terry to rehandle and then Terry can send it on to you.
I know Terry ships overseas. Terry will also do you as fine a job as any of the kamis and probably better.

If you want flawless and pristine perhaps you would be better served by one of the Cold Steel models.
If you're willing to accept the foibles of the kamis and of natural materials and get one of the finest khuks in the world then buy an HI model of your choice.

There are some great craftsmen in Italy that could probably fix your khuk to your expectations if it doesn't suit you straight from HI and since you're not capable.
Maybe you ought to try, maybe you could learn something new instead of saying, "I can't.":rolleyes:
 
I will have to agree with Yvsa, You should try to make your own handle. Myself, I don't have "I can't" in my vocabulary. If I, a Redneck, country boy, truckdriver, can forge my own Bilton, then anyone should be able to rehandle a khuk. It may not be perfect, but it adds your spirit to the khuk. Makes it part of you, or you're part of it. You could start by using a few simple hand tools to make a model of the handle you want. A chunk of wood, a couple of wood rasps and files, and some sandpaper, and you could reproduce the handle of a khuk. But it would be YOUR handle. Made to fit YOUR hand. And an added plus, you could say you did the customization yourself. Just don't do any woodworking in any area that your wife or significant other, considers as their space. In other words, the kitchen. And a good shop vac or vaccum(sp?) is nice, too. Not that I have to worry about that, I'm not married. :D
 
Thank you, Yvsa for your thorough explanation of the shrinking and cracking problem... If the khukuri was sent directly from Nepal to Italy, there would be much less of a problem! Being that this is not the case, your suggestion that Uncle Bill could send the knife to Terry Sisco and then to me is a great idea. It would be hoped that all Terry would need do is file a bit of material on the handle, and then buff it up again.

I want a 100% Nepalese made khukuri, and therefore am not interested in considering a Cold Steel khukuri style knife. I'm endeavoring to get a Nepali made khukuri as closely fashioned to perfection as possible, and definitely am not going to accept that, "I can't" without trying! The time, added expense, and effort is not an issue with me. I assume that the Royal Kami or one of the other Kamis can forge and roughly finish a blade that will be straight, without fold lines, hammer marks, and welding defects. Being that I'm not looking to change any of the blade's dimensional, weight, or geometrical parameters, I can wait for a truly pristine example of a routinely made blade to be forged, in this particular case, a Chitlangi (a.k.a. Cheetlange).

I once had a Japanese katana made, and had an outstanding swordsmith forge the blade, and fashion the seppa. The menuki, habaki, saya, tsuba, tsuka, koshirae and even the tsukaito and sageo were made by separate skilled craftsman. It took over two years to complete the sword, but I got something as close to perfection as possible. I'm sure a khukuri can be made as per my wishes...

I would be very pleased if Uncle Bill will take on the project, and will contact him directly as advised by others on the forum!

Thanks! Dan
 
Just drop some wood in a box and send it over (get the address from Bill). They'll make a knife handle out of it, for sure, but whether or not you get that knife back is a whole nuther question....:D


ddean & Aardvark - could you guys add NOSPAM to the email addresses posted here? Spammers using web-crawling spiders look on pages for email addresses and now Bill's guaranteed to get a double-helping of spam...:barf: :barf:

like this:

NOSPAM_himimp@aol.com
NOSPAM_unclebill@himalayan-imports.com

Then just tell people to edit out the "NOSPAM_" part.

I'm sure Uncle gets plenty of spam as it is...probably half of it just because he uses AOL...yikes! :eek:
 
Thanks for the reminder re spammers.
Post altered.

But I wonder if they aren't well aware
of NOSPAM insertions & configure the
crawlers to extract these automatically.
?
 
Drdan, before ordering, please rethink your quest for perfection.

The HI khukuris are very well made and beautiful in their own ways, but they are hand made with minimal equipment.

Like the dancing bear, it's not how gracefully the bear dances, but that he dances at all.

There are few if any jigs and fixtures in the shop. The decorations inside the sword of shiva are pretty close. They aren't spaced exactly.

The kamis do marvelously with what they have. But if you are wanting something as precisely done as a katana you WILL be disappointed.

On the other hand, if you order, say, a 16.5 WWII model, or an 18" Sirupati, I believe you may find ergonomics and a sense of aliveness that must be experienced to believe once you look beneath the surface.

If you want authenticity, it comes with a price in cosmetic perfection. These blades are art, rather than science.
 
The more I read the posts in the forum (and there are LOTS of posts here!), the more I am aware of that reality. I've changed my strategy since yesterday, as the result of lots (!) of reading...

I will probably ask Uncle Bill to set me up with a really select khukuri, which he calls a 10/10, and perhaps ask for a spotted deer horn handle, since aesthetically it's impressive to me. I can then have it sent to Terry Sisco for a "tuneup and detailing", if needed, before it is sent to its final destination to where I live in Italy, which has a similiar climate to North Carolina. I'm still doing my homework, and it's difficult to selct the model I'd like to purchase from HI; many are highly attractive, and look fast, yet maneuverable.

I want something that will also chop relatively well, albeit not like an AK. Either the Chitlangi, the Gelbu Special, or the Sirupati will likely be my first choice. I'd love the option of having a certain kami in mind forge and finish the blade, but another who is more skilled with handles fashion that particular part for me. I hope to receive a reply to an e-mail I sent to Uncle Bill so I can begin what will most likely be an interesting symbiotic relationship with the khukuri. I trust that he has recovered from my initial e-mail; to say the very least, it was a very tall order... Jeweler loupe inspection is just not going to happen. If he reads my post here, he will surely see that I've returned to the 3rd planet from the sun!

I can only imagine what the kamis could produce if they had no power tools, but the forging knowledge of Japanese swordsmiths, their various implements used in katana fabrication, and of course their experience. Back to reality in the present time/space continuum--I don't think that Uncle Bill would permit Bura to forge only 2 perhaps 3 blades a month, at his current salary, and not even polish/sharpen it. Come to think of it, not too many of HI's customers would care to depart with $4,500--%6,500 just to polish a single "khuk" either!

I'm learning that the value of the khukuri is in its geomety, balance and beauty, but using different parameters than those used for other edged weapons. Alfred Tan's comments would be appreciated here; he's quite well known with katana enthusiasts, and his presence on this forum is wonderful...!

Thanks!

Dan
 
Originally posted by Drdan
The more I read the posts in the forum (and there are LOTS of posts here!), the more I am aware of that reality. I've changed my strategy since yesterday, as the result of lots (!) of reading...

Jeweler loupe inspection is just not going to happen.

I'm learning that the value of the khukuri is in its geomety, balance and beauty, but using different parameters than those used for other edged weapons.

Dan
Click to expand...

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
Originally posted by Drdan
but using different parameters than those used for other edged weapons. Alfred Tan's comments would be appreciated here;
Click to expand...
I'm not sure 'other parameters' is necessary,
but certainly an appreciation of tradition, practicality, conditions, and other factors.
A blade must do what it is intended for.
And a great blade must stand out in doing so.

I'd also appreciate Alfred Tan's comments in this area,
& his comments from the katana tradition standpoint.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top