Can I DIY temper spring steel?

V

Vulcanite

Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Messages
293
Hey Guys,
I was really wanting to get started making my first knives, stock removal, from spring steel but I am not sure how I'm going to temper and coat the blades. Some bigger type knives out of 3/16" for now.

I have a 2x42 grinder, a little drill press and a angle grinder w/ cut off wheels.

I see I can get 1095 or 5160 from admiral steel that is non annealed hot rolled. If I used those steels would I be able to heat treat/temper them at home? Also, if I tried to apply some sort of bake on finish, how would that fit into the process w/ the tempering?

(also, does anyone have any better sources for 3-4" wide plates of ca 3/16" spring steel?)
 
Here's a sticky to answer your questions.....

Rosetta Stone of Metallurgy - Lots of HT info here

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I was posting this morning and used a reference from a course syllabus. I got to thinking that that particular info is the plain and simple explanation of about 60% of the questions asked here. I decided to refine the info into a simple tool for those trying to understand, and learn, the metallurgical processes used to make a knife.

The information is from a course taught a few years ago at Farmingdale University
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/
It is in Farmingdale,New York.

The course index is here:
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/index.html
There are lots of good topics to glean information about other than knife related areas. I recommend you read it all. The Lab projects can be good learning tools,too.

Annealing:
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/annealingstages.html
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/ANNEALING.html

Normalizing:
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/normalizing.html

Understanding a TTT chart:
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/tttdiagram.html

Heat Treatment:
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/heattreating.html

Quenching and Tempering:
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/tempering.html

Cryo:
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/cryogenictreatment.html

Steel types:
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/steelclassification.html
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/stainless-steels.html
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/toolsteels.html

Iron, Carbides, and Alloys:
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/fe3cdiagram.html
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/carboneffect.html
http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/alloyingeffect.html

Some advise on learning from such data:
The internet is wonderful. It is great to take a quick look at something you want to know about and say, "OK, I get it.", but the best way to learn it is to teach the skill to yourself. Read the entire article. Read it again if needed. Print out the charts and post them on the wall or bulletin board. Without the text in front of you, explain the topic displayed to yourself. If there are any spots where you are weak or unsure, go back to the text and refresh yourself. Once you have the information down where you can explain it clearly and concisely,you will have it committed to memory. If possible teach it to someone else, using all the text and charts. The standard method for training is 1) Learn the skill; 2) Practice the skill; 3) Teach the skill.
Print out the things that are important to you. Nothing sucks like going to your stored favorites and finding out that a site is no longer available. The stickies are full of those by now, and it can be frustrating. Get an accordion file and stick all the pages that you think you will ever need in there.
There is something different about holding a page, or reading a chart, that is in your hand. The parts of the brain involved in viewing information on a computer screen are not the same as viewing a printed page in real time. Your brain stores everything it sees around you in a 3D format. It is much different than the 2D storage of a monitor or TV screen. Internet info is a short term storage, and not the best way to learn. Reading printed text, looking at charts on a wall, etc., will lead to much better retention. Dumb as it sounds, speaking the words out loud as you explain to yourself what you are reading will increase retention even farther. This is why you teach the skill to yourself. Do it verbally, as that is also a separate part of the brain. The more pathways used, the more available the information is for recall.


Heat Treatment - by Kevin Cashen
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/th...s-of-quenching

Working with Three types of Steel - by kevin Cashen
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/th...ee-steel-types.

Last edited by bladsmth; Today at 06:57 AM.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Check Aldo Bruno (njsteelbaron.com) for 1/4" 5160 in 1-4" widths.

You can temper in your oven. I think you want to anneal it though, read a bunch about heat treating 5160.

What are you making, that is a serious piece of steel you want!

What kind of coating? I haven't done any powdercoating or anything like that but keep in mind you would probably need to have your scales fitted first and how to attach them after coating. Not too sure...

Hope this helps and good luck with everything. I am new to this myself.
 
I think you're more concerned with heat treating, as tempering can be done in your kitchen.

Bake on finishes go on after final temper and should not exceed the tempering temperature, even temporarily. OK, I had to do the last part.
 
all of those links to the farmindale school just go to the school home page :(

Is that Hot Rolled non-annealed steel good to go as it is? I mean, is it already at a spring temper to where if I keep it at <400 degrees while working it it will it still be springy? Then maybe I can just differentially temper the edges w/ a torch or something and quench in oil or by doing cycles in the oven???

I'm wanting to make couple smatchet type things, a pikal type knife and a dagger w/ a 45 degree handle. Nothing in the market quite to my specifications. All fighting type stuff so I'm not as concerned about the durability of the edge like I would in a big woods survival type knife one might be batoning with or whatever.
 
Admiral has 1095 3/16"X

NJ Steel Baron has 3/16x4x48" for $56

Admiral has 3/16"x2X72 for $26.

For better comparison, Admiral has 1/4x4x72" for $68 and NJSB has 1/4x4x48" for $69. So, NJSB's prices aren't necessarily better but he may have better stuff or be easier to get what you need in a size you want as a small maker.
 
Vulcanite said:
Admiral has 1095 3/16"X

NJ Steel Baron has 3/16x4x48" for $56

Admiral has 3/16"x2X72 for $26.

For better comparison, Admiral has 1/4x4x72" for $68 and NJSB has 1/4x4x48" for $69. So, NJSB's prices aren't necessarily better but he may have better stuff or be easier to get what you need in a size you want as a small maker.
Click to expand...

You should search for feedback here and on other sites about those two sources, you might find it interesting. :D
 
i'll contact that nj steel guy and see if that spring steel is already tempered well or if it needs high temp treatment to be good to go
 
Given the choice between Admiral steel and Aldo Bruno, I'd have to say that anybody who chooses Admiral needs to whooped with a knotted plowline(Josey Wales reference) :)
 
Okay,
here is a good link on hardening, tempering and annealing. Things are much clearer now. Maybe stick this instead of those dead links above in the thread: http://www.autonopedia.org/crafts_and_technology/Metal_work/Metalworking-The_Basics/7_Heat_Treatment_of_Steel.html

Now, it sounds like what I need is annealed plate stock, grind its pattern and grind the bevels and drill the screw holes. Then what I need to do is heat till its non-magnetic and quench and then do tempering cycles in the oven. Is the NJ steel baron spring steel annealed?

Annealing spring steel takes some fancy equipment since you have to slow its cooling so much in a high temp oven. I might could "normalize" between some hot fire bricks or something though to soften it up a little before machining.
 
OK, I updated the links

There is a problem with using the wrong word in technical questions.
If you said, "I ran down to the shop." and later said, "I ran up to the shop." that would just be semantics, as they both mean the same in general.
However, if you asked, "Can I temper a blade in the kitchen oven ?" when you really meant to ask, " Can I harden a blade in the kitchen oven ?", those are two entirely different questions.
Hardening is the conversion of the steel to martensite, which requires temperatures between 1400F and 2000F. Tempering is the adjustment of the newly hardened steel to a less brittle state, and is done at 300F to 1000F , - most tempering is done between 350F and 500F.
 
thanks. Yeah, I didn't really have the words to ask the question earlier. So, can a guy get annealed spring steel to later harden and then temper?
 
Yes, almost al steel comes as HRA - Hot Rolled and annealed, or CRA - clod Rolled and Annealed.
 
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