Can I Get Some Pointers on My Design??

T

ThirdEye4013

Joined
Nov 10, 2010
Messages
79
Hello folks, The past few days Ive been drawing out my design for my future project, after my next in line. I really dig straight razors, I have no idea why, but I just love the style of them. So I decided to come up with a pretty expensive really fancy, almost Gothic type of style. But here is the thing, and I know I will probably get a Lot of thumbs down and lectures for this, but I want this baby to be more of a utility knife, just the exact style of a straight razor. Because like I said... I like em. So I would appreciate it if you guys could check out my blueprints and give me any feedback. (preferably helpful) Any suggestions would be great. Like what type of grind should I put on this bad boy? I'm thinking a hollow grind wouldn't be the very best idea, considering I want to use this as a EDC, but i really have no clue. I am planning on making the blade out of 1095 & 15n20 Birdseye Damascus. Any pointers or heads up regarding damascus and this style? Ive heard your supposed to grind with the grain or something, to avoid chipping. Any input on that? The bolster and buttcap i plan on making from some white mokume I ran across. I want to make the scales from a really shiny material with a white tint Probably some Mother of Peal or some faux white pearl. But im also thinking of going with the Black Lip Pearl, I really like this stuff and seems like it will flow well with damascus. Ill have to mess around with textures on Photoshop. I'm not sure on what to use for spacer material yet... Is there such a thing as very thin Titanium that's been Anodized all rainbowy, that could be used for spacers? That would be PERFECT!!! I'm still not sure on what to use for the pins yet.. Maybe mosaic if they make it small enough. But maybe some black pins to contrast the colors. What would black pins be, lol. Finally I am going to give it some wire inlay. This will be the first time doing so, so I plan to practice A LOT!!! before doing the real deal. I'm also not sure on what to use for wire either to make it really jump out. I want to use gold, but that's if i can get enough for a decent price. (I really don't need that much, and will probably take the smallest gauge possible.) But if not gold I don't know what to use to make it flow and POP! I want to wire inlay the interfacing triangles on the handle, and under the tang of the blade, also I want to put wire inlay on the outline on the pearl scales. If I use gold I probably wont with the Scales. Because if I use the White Mokume bolsters I will just use Silver wire on the scales to match the mokume. Maybe with the Gold triangles inside. Also I don't know if you noticed, but I also want to put some filework on the spine, and maybe some vine or the style i drew on the top of the tang. With grooves where the flipper of the tang is. Also every point on the top, i want to run a triangle rat tail file in the middle to kinda give it a horns style but not as pointy more rounded off. and I also want to file circular disk sections on the tang as you can see in the image. so what do you think folks? I would love to hear your opinions, So I can better it before I make it. I already ran out of ideas if you didn't notice, lol. Tried to make it as complicated as possible. I'm ready for it too, no matter what, im making it happen. Please give me some advice and suggestions on materials to use and pointers, and whatever you would like to say to me.
Also is there a way i can make damascus really POP? like lets say I buy a sheet, could I etch it again or give it some soaking bath in some chemical to make it really BLUE-ish or just way more eye catchy? And do straight razors even use Pivots? or do most people just slip a pin through the pivot hole and through a couple washers on it?


Here is the Sketch's
http://www.dropshots.com/zoom.html?...shots.com/photos/709222/20101116/b_035725.jpg

Photoshoped Textured Versions (quick and simple)
http://www.dropshots.com/zoom.html?...shots.com/photos/709222/20101116/b_061331.jpg


Thanks a lot for your time guys, I know this is a real long post but I tried to be detailed as POSSIBLE.
Take care fellas!:D
Cody D
 
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I must admit that is the nastiest thing I have seen for some time. Two comments looks like your planning has gone well I suggest you make a plastic model, I make a paper cut out and them 1/8 micarta but you can use any plastic, some use carboard but I like plastic.

I think you will need a hollow grind to maintain the back of the blade and give a sharp transition from the blade to the back of the blade,

When doing something new I will typically make a few, this way I can work out bugs and materials. I would start with just a simple carbon steel blade and some simple handle materials and then once everthing is set go for the more expensive materials

good luck
 
I'm curious what knifemaking skills you have. I'm not saying you can't do it, just saying straight razors are on the high end of difficulty do to their thinness and grinding after heat treat.
Definatly an interesting design.:)
 
Most straights are assembled with a pivot pin with brass washers between the scales and the blade. The pins are usually brass or stainless, and are peined in place to hold the scales tight to the blade to provide the friction necessary for proper function. Also, you do have options of cold blueing the damascus, depending on materials used, for different or more intense contrast. You'll need to spead to the damascus specialists for more info there... Yes, you can find anodized titanium but I don't know where you'd find it (but I have seen it). Have you considered musk ox for your scales? Seriously incredible looking stuff when it's done correctly.


For the grind I think you'd be better off hollow grinding the blade just to help with the weight. You obviously wouldn't want to take it to the fine edge a straight razor needs but you could still keep a nice grind on it. I would recommend going with 3/16" or 1/4" stock for the blade, a tapered tang would do wonders with balance. Also, all the straight makers I know grind before heat treat, not after. Well, they do the master grind before heat treat and final grind after heat treat. Again, since you won't be taking it down to the fine edge of a straight razor then you could stick with the common standards of grinding a knife when considering heat treat.

When it comes to doing an inlay, especially on steel, you really need an engraver in my opinion. I know you can do it without but to do the proper undercutting necessary to inlay gold or other material an engraver would definitely be the way to go.

If you really are serious about doing this I would really recommend talking with guys who do this on a regular basis, the first one that pops into my head is Bill Ellis.

You also might want to post this in the "Razors, Scissors, & Personal Grooming" subforum to get input from straight users that don't hang out in Shop Talk.

Not to sound like a pessimist but I really hope you know just how intense of a build this is gonna be!
 
PatrickKnives: "I must admit that is the nastiest thing I have seen for some time" - :(
but I really dig that idea to make micarta copies first. Genius!

SShepherd: "I'm curious what knifemaking skills you have" - I have made a couple pretty good straight razors. So I have the hollow grind down. just not as well as Loydd "Butch" Harner of coarse.

and to Amcardon- Wow! I checked out that Musk Ox horn and HOLY CRAP!! I think you totally made my mind on that one!!! That stuff is gorgeous. But you said you recommend 1/4 inch Stock?? REALLY? That wide? I was planning on some 1/8th of an inch. Also I'm set on the engraver. my buddy has every type of engraving utensil possible.

And yes I know this is a lot of stuff to do but I am ready and willing to do it all. No matter how long it takes.


Thanks for the input guys!
 
just make it and see how it goes!

no, you don't have to grind damascus in a special way with the pattern

the rest of the materials look pretty pricy, good luck
 
Definitely will. But like I said im making this for myself so there's no pressure like there would be with a customer. Thanks for clarifying on the Damascus chipping subject. And as for pricey, I think ill be able to do it pretty cheap actually, and surprisingly. I ran into a guy that will sell me Ladder and Birdseye damascus for 25$ a 1/8th" by 1 3/8" by 12" billet. So that's gonna save me a lot and its good for even another knife, and maybe a fillet folder or something. I also found a place online that sells Mokume, they have: Black gold, White Mokume, classic mokume, Black and white, gun smoke and gold, and colbatium mokume. They price it at 17$ for a 1 1/4" by 4" by 1/8" flat stock, and that's more than enough also. Ive yet to find a decent priced source for Musk Ox horn yet, and its pretty rare to come by I guess. (again amcardon THANK YOU for mentioning that!) But I've also been thinking instead of using the white mokume I may go with the black and white. ill mess around on photoshop CS5 some more. Also I found some gold wire like 37 feet for like 6$ LOL it's obviously not 24k gold but its just the color that matters to me on this one, no use in buying 24k or even 18k for that matter, it'll look the damn same either way. But all in all I will probably end up spending about 60$ or a little more and have a lot of left over material, besides the mokume, that will be limited. Also please I'd love to hear some recommendations from anyone on some more materials that are really pretty and flow with the damascus. And I'd like to hear some design thoughts and ideas, since I already got a "nasty looking" on the first comment, I thought it was pretty slick looking, but any recommendations on what I should add to the design? or Remove? Like Pat, what made you say it was nasty? Like if I gave it to you, and you felt like cleaning it up, What exactly would you do to make it look better? I don't mind at all that u said it was nasty, lol. But as a basic artist and a lot of my friends are artists I know that you never look at your own work as someone else does, and what was in your mind usually wont be on paper. Your opinion was helpful. really.

Thanks a lot guys your opinions really helped, I don't usually ask people to critique my designs ever, but now im gonna have to start. It really puts stuff in perspective.
Take care.
Cody D
 
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My only note would be to check your local laws about carrying something line that. A blade with no detent when closed and no lock when open will likely be categorized as a gravity knife which can be a big no-no...

-d
 
I like your straight razor desing.

I would try one whit cheaper materials first
01 and micarta maybe,
Any way I never make a straight razor before
God luck.
that is a great project

Best regards
 
deker said:
My only note would be to check your local laws about carrying something line that. A blade with no detent when closed and no lock when open will likely be categorized as a gravity knife which can be a big no-no...

-d
Click to expand...

Oh my. THANK YOU for the heads up lol. dang I never thought of that. hmmm. That would be horrible to make this and spend all that and BANG it gets confiscated and im on probation... that's not art, lol. Would it be legal in a sheath or something? I don't know, ill definitely look into it. And heck, if it is illegal to carry here ill have to adjust it to make it legal (<probably not) or just give it a finer hollowgrind and have myself a brand new straight razor to start trimming up my scruff. Good looking out brother.


And GUSVAL! whats up man, Thanks a lot I appreciate it, And yeah Like the second poster said, I'm going to make a couple first draft prototypes. maybe one or two of plastic, then one of some 1080.
 
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I recant my earlier statement of 1/4" - I had straights on the brain, forgot for a second this is gonna be a "knife" not a straight, sorry! Yeah, 1/8 should work fine I would imagine. 1/8" will be pretty tough to engrave but otherwise should work fine.

I think the nasty comment was meant in a good way (I could be wrong, can't really speak for Patrickknives but that's how I read it) same as if he said wicked or something along those lines.

For the musk ox I don't think you're going to find anything at a better price for better quality than you'll get from Mark Knapp. He regularly has some in the "Knifemaking Supplies & Tools" forum. I would recommend emailing him and seeing what he suggests - just know that this stuff is not cheap! Absolute beauty that you will pay through the nose for (and knock people's socks off when they see it!) The pictures you see really don't do it justice, in my opinion it's one of the most beautiful materials out there, really stunning and worth every penny if you can swing it...

And from what I read in MI knife laws as long as the blade edge is under 3" and you're not carrying it with the intent to do bodily harm to a person you should be just fine carrying it in your pocket. I could be wrong, they write them with the intent to confuse you and provide enough room for them to charge you with whatever you want... Bottom line, in my experience, don't carry autos and don't be a dumb-*** and you should be just fine.
 
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lol Okay, Thats actually the way I read his comment at first too, just never heard it with the word nasty though. Lol its cool, I normally say "Thats Sick!" and people are like "why is that sick?" so oops if that's what he meant, and if he did COOL, cuz everyone seems to like it so I think im gonna stick with it.

Thanks for the recommendation on a source also. That stuff is awesome. I cant stop looking at pictures of it. Its great. Does Mark sell it in small slabs though? because all I can find is like 5 lbs for a couple hundred dollars. And I wanted to ask you, What part of the horn would you recommend using? Ill attach a link or picture here
http://www.dropshots.com/zoom.html?...shots.com/photos/709222/20100811/b_174905.jpg
of what I mean, The top is really pearly and fine patterned, that I really like. The bottom has more of a pearly ivory look. But im guessing the top section is very limited. But I'm also wondering if the tips of the horn only have the bright white pattern or the mostly tanish like the core. Like what part did you use? Or seen used?

Finally, about the law here, Thats all it says. just like you said, "nothing more than 3 inches concealed, unless its Bear, Dear, or Small Game season with reasonable limitation, and Without the intent to do any bodily harm. Also no spring assisted, balisongs, or double edged blades of any length." So yeah like you said they left it small so they can have A LOT of gray areas. But on the other hand, I saw a lot about a case in 1971 of a man being charged and it said "The Defendant had the STRAIGHT RAZOR concealed in his pocket" So maybe its a law, but how many times have you heard of someone getting thrown in jail recently for the straight razor in there pocket. Heck if there ever is a time I get hassled about it ill say I was transporting it to its new home. Your legally aloud to transport a handgun that isn't licensed to you, from point A to B. So if you can do that in Michigan, I don't see a problem with a straight razor. lol

Thanks a lot for your help amcardon! you rock man.
 
Oh And I almost Forgot! Its funny that you mentioned Bill Ellis. Billy Ellis is actually where I got the gold wire inlay on damascus idea. I saw one of his blogs when he made it and followed it all the way through. The contrast of those two colors are beautiful!
 
Michigan -750.226... Carrying with unlawful intent
Any person who, with intent to use the same unlawfully
against the person of another, goes armed with a pistol
or other firearm or dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or
knife having a blade over 3 inches in length, or any
other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument, shall
be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in
the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine
of not more than 2,500 dollars.


that being said, remember police 9/10 times will just arrest you and let the court sort it out. While you may be found innocent, it's going to cost you alot of time and money to prove it.
 
I've never worked musk ox myself - outside my budget for the time being. I would email mark with your questions, he has a lot of experience with it and can likely answer all your questions. Also, I was wondering, were you planning on installing a ball detent or something along those lines for retention? If you're using ti liners might be something to consider. Also, is there a way you can design the scales so that when fully open it has some type of locking or blocking mechanism? I don't know the proper terms to be using here. I will try to find a picture to help, something along the lines of a primitive folding knife whose blade has a tang that rests in a cutout in the scales when open.
 
Yeah man I was totally thinking that. maybe a liner lock would work for keeping it open. but yeah you should definitely get a pic, because sadly im not to aware of what the term dentent means. Meant to ask you earlier. But I only know dentent as some little stainless steel balls that you can put on folders sorta like a ball bearing for smooth flicking action. I think they have them at TexasKnifedotcom or whatever.
 
Friction folder was what I was thinking of. Something like a svord peasant or one of these (taken from bushcraftusa):

Joel D said:
I have made a few of them, I like them too and carry this one at the moment:

P1020881.jpg


This one has blued steel liners, bone handle scales and a 3mm thick, just under 3" long cutting edge blade.

DSCN1254.jpg


Again, 3mm, under 3" long cutting edge.

DSCN1141-1.jpg


I started making them because I wanted to be able to have a reasonably stout, "legal" knife I could use as an EDC without getting hassle from the cops if I "got caught" with a....erm, dangerous weapon!

Ie: under 3" cutting edge no locking blade. Unless you are stupid enough to go wave it about in a threatening manner, which I am not :cool: it's legal and no hassle should occur.
Click to expand...
 
I was just checking out a pretty cool knife that was a friction folder like that. IDK Ill have to mess around with some drawings and see if it will look natural enough for my taste. A lot of planning going into this bad boy. But amcardon, will you please explain a Dentent to me?
 
The purpose of the ball detent is to keep the blade closed and also to keep the spring (in a liner/frame lock) from rubbing against the blade. Here's a decent thread that describes installation so you should be able to get an idea of what I'm talking about. I would imagine every folder you have has one. HERE you can see how the detent relief is cut into the blade allowing the ball to seat and hold the blade closed.
 
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