Can I meet all my stropping needs with a single compound?

K

Kirk_Ferentz

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Feb 16, 2010
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I'd really like the answer to be yes, but if it is really necessary to use more than one, let me know. It would be nice to get one tube of something and forget about it.

I'm completely new to stropping .... I will be using whetstones up to 5000 and would like to top it off with a compound and strop.

I was about to make an order but decided to look at some other products to bundle and saw that DMT has some affordable assortments of pastes. Not sure if they are any good.
 
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If you want a mirror polished edge I'd suggest finer finishing stones before stropping or you will need multiple compounds. If you just want to de-burr and bring out a little sharpness a bare horse leather strop or a piece of newspaper on your stone works very well.
 
If all your edges are going to be finished the same, than I'd say you'll be fine w/ one compound. If you're planning on finishing your edges off at different grit values, then you'd be well served w/ a larger variety.
HH
 
Been using the Green .5mic. Chromium oxide for 20 years. No worries at all.
Changing the substrate you put the compound on makes a lot of difference in final edge quality though ( leather ,wood,cardboard , etc) depending on edge profile.
 
You certainly can. Get a couple of bars of the green stuff and it'll probably last you a lifetime if you're hand stropping.
 
Thanks for the posts. I should have been clearer... I would also like to know which compound(s) you recommend.

Knifenut, would you prefer 5K stone + multiple compounds (and which compounds?) or a finer stone (which one?) and one compound (which one?)? I'd also like to hear your rec Heavy Handed

Thanks.
 
Kirk_Ferentz said:
Thanks for the posts. I should have been clearer... I would also like to know which compound(s) you recommend.

I'd also like to hear your rec Heavy Handed

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I'm way outside the mainstream on this subject, but I'll give you a run-down of my setup and you can decide if it makes sense. My current gear is w/sandpaper but I have and use all kinds of media (waterstones, Arkansas, diamond stones). Right now I have a block that's grooved out on the ends so I can wedge the sandpaper. The top of the block has an 1/8" aluminum plate on it. If I'm sharpening with a conventional bevel I just wedge the paper taught over the plate. If I'm convexing I put however much material under the paper as needed to get the desired amount of deflection.

I also am a proponent of toothy edges for a lot of my cutting needs, which lead me to do some creative thinking in terms of stropping. If all one does is use a very fine grit compound on their toothier edges they'll quickly loose their aggressive characteristics. It's my belief that one should have a stropping grit fairly close to the grit value that you're doing your sharpening with and intend to stop at. In my case, I've observed on a number of occasions that a very fine compound might not even remove a burr from an edge that's been sharpened at a lower grit - but it sure will shine it up. I used to use black emery (from Sears) for all edges sharpened at less than 800 grit or so, Flexcut Gold for edges up to 1500 or so (all grit values are CAMI), and I wouldn't consider using green CrO unless I was at 2000 grit or higher. This method to me works pretty well as it gives fairly predictable results. These days I am a little more OCD about it. I whipped up a number of strops and have switched over to silicon carbide powder for most of my stropping. Various rated grades of this dust can be had very inexpensively at any lapidary supply house (I used Arrowhead Lapidary). I have and regularly use a strop loaded w/ 120 grit, 220grit, 600 grit, and 1200 grit. These powders on a strop seem to function at a higher level of refinement than their rating (600 grit matches up well scratch pattern-wise with 800-1000 grit sandpaper, 220 w/ 400grit sandpaper etc). Only at higher levels of refinement do I use the CrO (like following some .3 micron lapping film), but find that I can produce a pretty comfortable face-shaving edge coming off 2000 grit sandpaper and following w/ 1200 grit lapidary powder. I like using these materials in this format because I get very consistent and predictable results, and the appropriately sized SiC powder removes a burr more thoroughly and leaves a cleaner edge than any other method I've used without smoothing the tooth off. Also, once I put a decent edge on a knife I seldom have to put it back on the sandpaper or other hard grinding surface. Stropping with a grit that more or less matches the grit on your finished edge doesn't change the cutting characteristics like using a super fine compound will after repeated touch-ups, and doesn't cause issues w/ stropping too much like possibly rounding the edge off. If the edge is really beat up I might drop down a grit and then finish back up at the intended grit, all without raising a new burr. At 120 grit my edges will shave the hair off my arm.

Not many will endorse this strategy, but I can tell you my edges are very good performers and I can get them there and keep them there w/ very little fuss. I can also tweak them by switching the grades around. Recently produced an edge using 400 grit sandpaper followed by 220 and then 600 grit lapidary powder to finish, that was capable of shaving the stubble from my jaw but still has a lot of tooth to it. When it's time to touch it up I'll just repeat the same procedure - 220 strop followed by 600 strop and I'll get exactly the same edge w/out using a stone or paper.

If you're always going to be finishing at a fairly high level of refinement, or don't plan on maintaining a somewhat coarser edge, then you'll be very happy with the CrO, or perhaps the Flexcut Gold which is just a tad more aggressive.

There are a lot of ways to approach this. Making a homemade strop is very inexpensive, compounds are relatively cheap, feel free to experiment a little. If one grade of compound and one strop works for you, you'll have more room in your bag for other stuff. It just doesn't work well for me.
Best of luck and let us know how you make out.

HH
 
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What 5k stone do you have?

Heavy hit on several good points about the use of compounds in relation to your last step. You can use a very fine compound to finish from a coarser edge but its not going to be what it should. Consistency in your sharpening is important because it allows you to correctly observe your edge performance and taylor it for your needs.

Personally I'd either just call it good at the 5k or strop with some news print. At that point you should have a razor sharp edge, probably capable of a face shave. I've been working with waterstones a lot lately and following the Murray Carter method of keeping it simple. To keep it short I'll just say that I'm getting similar sharpness using just stones that I was using many stropping steps, its not as pretty but its more practical.

I can't call it a waste of time because I learned a lot from fine polishing a edge but I also learned I was going past the point I needed just because I liked the shine. I still like to polish some steels or blades that are for show but overall my strops are collecting more dust than usual.

If you want the shine then I'd suggest the DMT 6, 3, and 1 micron pastes on balsa after your 5k.
 
Some good info. here . A lot depends on you, where you want to end up and how fine an edge you desire . HH, last 3 sentences are good to ponder (thanks for taking the time to do all that write up) . The higher stone grit the greater affect the green rouge will have on the edge (refinement, burr removal, ect.). I use only one or two stones and 2 strops. On a finer edge naturally I use more of both.
Experiment with it learning along the way and arrive at what you like. DM
 
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knifenut1013 said:
What 5k stone do you have?

Heavy hit on several good points about the use of compounds in relation to your last step. You can use a very fine compound to finish from a coarser edge but its not going to be what it should. Consistency in your sharpening is important because it allows you to correctly observe your edge performance and taylor it for your needs.

Personally I'd either just call it good at the 5k or strop with some news print. At that point you should have a razor sharp edge, probably capable of a face shave. I've been working with waterstones a lot lately and following the Murray Carter method of keeping it simple. To keep it short I'll just say that I'm getting similar sharpness using just stones that I was using many stropping steps, its not as pretty but its more practical.

I can't call it a waste of time because I learned a lot from fine polishing a edge but I also learned I was going past the point I needed just because I liked the shine. I still like to polish some steels or blades that are for show but overall my strops are collecting more dust than usual.

If you want the shine then I'd suggest the DMT 6, 3, and 1 micron pastes on balsa after your 5k.
Click to expand...

It's actually an Arashyama 6K
 
The arashiyama is a awesome stone, it cuts quickly but its closer to a 8k than its 6k rating. The stone can be used with a slurry or with clean water depending on the affect you would like to achieve. It won't build a slurry on its own so the use of a good nagura or diamond plate is needed. When used with no slurry it will act more like a synthetic polishing stone and create a very fine scratch and bright polish that's nearly mirror. When used this way the removed metal builds on the surface and with increasing build-up the edge polish gets finer and finer.

When used with a slurry the stone makes a complete 180 and acts identical to a natural waterstone. A thicker slurry and a light touch is needed but the results are sweet on the right blade. When used with the slurry the slurry does the cutting and the stone should stay free of removed metal markings, you will also notice the slurry getting darker from removed metal. The polish changes from mirror like to a dull haze known better as a kasumi finish, if the steel is right and the technique good you can get to the point where the scratch pattern disappears in the haze. The edge is just as sharp either way its just the appearance that changes. Personally I like the haze.

You can splash and go with that stone but it will retain water better if soaked for 5-10 minutes. From what I've read its a ceramic binder stone so its very slow wearing and has a very hard abrasive that keeps it cutting on the harder steels. No problem with S30V and I use it regularly to keep the ELMAX blade of my 0551 in tune. It will produce a very fine edge that's much like a polished edge and will be extremely sharp. If you still want the full polish then you would only need 3 and 1 micron but with a little extra work the 1 micron would do.

You have a really nice stone that doesn't get enough press, get your technique down if you don't already and it will give you scary sharp edges all the time.
 
I don't use them often, but it seems to me that w/ some practice very little or no stropping is needed coming off most waterstones, at least in terms of burr removal. I don't use them much because for me they're just not very convenient - I don't have a sink next to my workbench and my kitchen is busier than Grand Central. Also, because they polish as you go much like an Arkansas stone, I don't get the same amount of bite from my waterstone edges as I do w/ diamonds or SiC. They do seem like the way to go if you're planning on finishing at a high level of refinement. About once or twice a year I break mine out and see if I can improve my technique w/ them, coming up on another attempt soon.
HH
 
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