can I pull this off?

T

thegeek574

Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
2,460
Everyone,
I am a starting knifemaker, and i will be getting some steel in as soon as possible. i was wondering if anyone has used a oxyacetylene torch to heat up the edge for quenching. my design is a very basic knife, with a 7 inch blade. could i pull of a basic quench with a torch?

also, what tip would i need?

thanks for all the help and support. you guys are the only reason i am trying this.
 
A man can do just about anything if he sets his mind to it. If I were to do it I would use a rosebud and do the whole blade. It may be a bit tricky and it probably will be really hard to get it all to the right temp., but you should be able to harden it using a rosebud. If you are going to do it, I would try it on some test pieces a few times first to make sure it works good. It will not be as good as if you had better heat treating equipment though.

Just my opinion.

Edited to fix some of my spelling "oops"
 
Few questions...
What steel do you plan on getting?
What are you quenching in?

It has been done many time, I have done it my self. I don't think the tip you use is the biggest issue with getting the blade up to temp. IMO 7" is a little big to HT this way, it is just too hard to keep the entire length of the blade at the right temp. If you got some 1080 steel, and shortened your blade to at least 5" you would have better results. when heating the blade hold it at an angle so that the flame runs up along the length of the Steel.

Obviously you will not be getting everything out of the steel that you can, but you will be able to harden in and have a usable knife if you are able to get the temp up. Good Luck, and let us know how it turns out.
 
Until recently, RichardJ did all of his HT with an OA torch. I believe he started with the spine and worked towards the edge. That would make sense, anyway, since the spine will hold the heat longer than the edge. I recently did a HT using a propane torch and one brick forge. I would expand to two bricks and MAPP for a 7" blade.
 
So what i am hearing is that it would probably not work for a knife this size, and so i should shorten it and then it would work. BTW I am using 1095 and will be quenching in strained used motor oil.

I am really kind of attached to the original design, and so i think i will just bite the bullet and build a little forge along these lines:
http://www.dfoggknives.com/charcoal_forge.htm

or this: http://www.dfoggknives.com/forge.htm

thanks. i was just exploring other options.
 
Geek574, Drop me a PM or and Email. Maybe you can drop by someday and I can show you how to HT with a torch. Is it the best way? No. Will it work? YES. It does take a bit of practice to get it right.
 
A torch works pretty well. The motor oil will probably work OK if you preheat it and agitate the knife while you quench. 7" is not too long, IMO for a torch quench. I've done some pretty long blades back in my Ed Fowler/Knifetalk days...

It helped me to build a stand for my torch. Mine is a holder that fits in the hardy hole of my anvil. It holds the lit torch, I move the blade. That gives me a hand free to use a magnet, etc.
 
thegeek574 said:
So what i am hearing is that it would probably not work for a knife this size, and so i should shorten it and then it would work. BTW I am using 1095 and will be quenching in strained used motor oil.

I am really kind of attached to the original design, and so i think i will just bite the bullet and build a little forge along these lines:
http://www.dfoggknives.com/charcoal_forge.htm

or this: http://www.dfoggknives.com/forge.htm

thanks. i was just exploring other options.
Click to expand...

Used motor oil is not a good quench medium. Period! It does not extract heat quickly, and it will flare up dangerously and give you toxic fumes. If you are not going to go with a real quench oil, go with a vegetable oil, I used olive oil heated to 130f for years and it worked well without much flareup, a lot of people use canola or peanut oil. that said, 1095 will not harden properly in motor oil, and unless really thin will not harden properly in vegetable oil (it will seem hard to a file test, but pearlite skates files) you want to use 1084 for primitive equipment heat treating. Kevin Cashen has a stickey about working with the three steel types, there is a lot of good info there.

-Page
 
I haven't used a torch for ht in over 15 years, but back then a blade with 10" of edge was no problem. A heat trap/reflector will help but isn't necessary

+1 on using a large rosebud
+1 on using 1080 or similar, not 1095, unless you have very good temp control and very fast quenchant
+1 on using something less toxic than used motor oil (and more effective too)

now I have an evenheat or send out for ht
 
thegeek574, heat treating with a torch is easy. i only heat treat the edge but i heat above the edge and stay away from the very edge and the very tip. i come close to the tip. i have used motor oil but i use used motor oil that is thin or i mix motor oil and transmission fluid. if you want a more detailed explination i would be glad to give you a call which would save both of us some typing. i would take chuck up on his offer to drop by and have him show you also. here is my email addy rje196021@gmail.com
 
For me a Rosebud gets them hot too fast and is hard to control. I use a #3 Victor tip and a 3-X flame and suggest you get some real heat treating oil, it will produce better blades if you use the right one.
 
I'll just say do some research on what heat treating with a torch actually means to the steel and decide for your self if you want to do it this way. I'm not going to say I haven't done it, but I'll say that I won't do it any more.
 
Ok. I am hearing a consensus of yes on the fact that you can heat treat with a torch for a 7" blade, and i am also hearing that 1095 is not going to cut it (yes, pun intended), nor will strained motor oil.

So, what would the general opinion of moving to D2 be? 5160? 52100? If none, where can i get 1084 by approximately 18 inches? what about tranny fluid? canola oil? strained oil that has been used in the deep fat fryer?

@1234567890 I do not want to send it to them. if i start doing this for money, maybe. however, with shipping and such, it starts to look a lot like 45 bucks for one blade. i just can't afford that.
@AC Richards I will totally do that if i can convince the parents. thanks for the offer.
@Sunshadow Yessir. will not do, Sir. I am not a fan of toxic fumes.
@wnease thanks for the advice. I will take it.
@richard J I will probably take you up on the e-mail, if not the call. What would your opinion be of just using tranny oil or mixing the strained stuff with tranny oil?
@Ed Fowler OK, where can i get both of those things? i am assuming i can get the tip at a run-of-the-mill hardware store, but what about the heat treat oil?
@AcridSaint You have to do everything once. If this was professional, i would buckle down and buy a decent forge or oven, but i am on a very limited budget. this will have to do until i can throw something together.
 
I understand the budget thing as well as most. I'm not knocking you for having to do things without top-tier tools. I'm just saying, from my own experience and what I know about making knives, that I wouldn't do it, even starting out on a budget. If I were starting over, I'd get an air hardening steel, shape it and send it to TKS and be into it for 15-20 bucks shipped or, if I were set on carbon steel, I'd send it to Delbert Ealy.
 
1095 will work if you are able to quench it fast enough. I just happen to have parks 50 quench oil, which is what you need. 5160 is a good choice and easy to work with, D2 not for beginners trying to do their own HT. 52100 likewise is not an easy steel to master though easier to do a DIY HT than D2. If you can convince your parents to bring you down it will save you a lot of headaches and costs in the long run. We will be able to do it correctly. I heat treated with a torch for 14 years before I went to a salt pot or controlled forge. I think we can pull it off. By the way I have had many teenage students and even had one that was 10 years old (parents accompanied the 10yo). Please feel free to drop me an email chuck(@)woodchuckforge.com just remove the parens around the @.
 
thegeek574, That is an awesome opportunity that Mr. Richards is offering you.
I hope your parents understand and let it happen.
 
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