Can I push Nuclayer Systems Noscale another 50 degrees?

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Keanen

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Nov 21, 2024
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Hi there, I have been using Nuclayer Systems Noscale for my AEB-L and D2. I would like to begin working with M390 but it needs protected to 2050 and the Nuclayer is only rated to 2000. Would I be able to push the limits another 50 degrees without hurting the steel or do I need to play it safe and purchase another compound? Thanks, Keanen
 
Also you can use the search feature on this forum to find relevant information.

This post from Stuart is worth reading.

Stuart Davenport Knives

Thread 'Anti scale/decarb coatings'

Larrin Thomas with Knife Steel Nerds has put out a new article and video on the different options for keeping scale and decarb at bay. I was surprised it hasn't been posted here yet, but hopefully it will be soon.

I have only had experience with ATP-641 and of course 309 SS foil. For stainless steels, I have come to the conclusion that SS foil is the way to go, and I believe Larrin came to the same conclusion.

For carbon steels, during normalizing/cycling/annealing, SS foil is probably the best way to go, as you can leave the blade in the same packet during all of those heat...
  • Like
 
A question for you, do you have a cryo setup?

Here is a data sheet on CPM 20v and without cryo it looks like the hardness potential is pretty limited.

 
no you can’t push nuclayer that high it burns and the steel burns under it. Honestly even past 1950 it really stops working well, I used to use nuclayer for nitro-v which is similar to aeb-l, I’d use 1900 for my hardening temp and it did a decent job but when I switched over to foil I could immediately tell a difference in how clean the surface of the steel is with foil. Anti scales seem to work much better for carbon steels and are better than nothing for lower temp stainless options but foil is going to be significantly better and gives you a wider range of steels to work with.
 
Even stainless foil packets are pretty dang toasty after the 2050 ride...I wouldn't try any coating based methods for keeping out scorch at that temp. Actually, you even need the 309 grade stainless for that level as the 321 is rated to 1900.
 
Keanan, I would highly advise against using any coatings for tool steels and stainless steels. The SS foil is simply the best option. I have never had good success with coatings above ~1750°F (A-2 tool steel). ATP-641 seemed to work decently with A-2, but any temp hotter than that I will always use the SS foil.
 
Seedy Lot said:
Also you can use the search feature on this forum to find relevant information.

This post from Stuart is worth reading.

Stuart Davenport Knives

Thread 'Anti scale/decarb coatings'

Larrin Thomas with Knife Steel Nerds has put out a new article and video on the different options for keeping scale and decarb at bay. I was surprised it hasn't been posted here yet, but hopefully it will be soon.

I have only had experience with ATP-641 and of course 309 SS foil. For stainless steels, I have come to the conclusion that SS foil is the way to go, and I believe Larrin came to the same conclusion.

For carbon steels, during normalizing/cycling/annealing, SS foil is probably the best way to go, as you can leave the blade in the same packet during all of those heat...
  • Like
Click to expand...
Thanks, I am still learning my way around blade forums. I'll use the search function moving forward. Thanks for the link to the thread. I read it and learned a lot!
 
Seedy Lot said:
A question for you, do you have a cryo setup?

Here is a data sheet on CPM 20v and without cryo it looks like the hardness potential is pretty limited.

Click to expand...
No, I don't have cryo. I was planning on using Larrin's recommendation for 2050 without cryo with a 300 degree temper.
 
Joshua Fisher said:
no you can’t push nuclayer that high it burns and the steel burns under it. Honestly even past 1950 it really stops working well, I used to use nuclayer for nitro-v which is similar to aeb-l, I’d use 1900 for my hardening temp and it did a decent job but when I switched over to foil I could immediately tell a difference in how clean the surface of the steel is with foil. Anti scales seem to work much better for carbon steels and are better than nothing for lower temp stainless options but foil is going to be significantly better and gives you a wider range of steels to work with.
Click to expand...
Ok, I'll get some foil. I'm excited to see the difference it makes! Thanks!
 
JV Knives said:
Even stainless foil packets are pretty dang toasty after the 2050 ride...I wouldn't try any coating based methods for keeping out scorch at that temp. Actually, you even need the 309 grade stainless for that level as the 321 is rated to 1900.
Click to expand...
Ok, I'm glad I asked before giving it a try. I appreciate it!
 
Stuart Davenport Knives said:
Keanan, I would highly advise against using any coatings for tool steels and stainless steels. The SS foil is simply the best option. I have never had good success with coatings above ~1750°F (A-2 tool steel). ATP-641 seemed to work decently with A-2, but any temp hotter than that I will always use the SS foil.
Click to expand...
Ok! Seems like that's the way to go. I have a little A-2 to play with, so I'm glad I checked first. Thanks!
 
Keanen said:
No, I don't have cryo. I was planning on using Larrin's recommendation for 2050 without cryo with a 300 degree temper.
Click to expand...
I have never used the M390 steels, and never will, but if the data sheet is correct and you can only reach 56 Rc with 2050/300 I would recomend a different steel or sending out ht to a professional. 56 Rc is just way to soft for a quality knife.

I know it is fun to try different steels but it would be better for you to focus on one steel, dial down the heat treat and work on making quailty knives. It would be much better to make knives out of a boring steel that you can provide a decent heat treat for than getting your knives associated with sexy steels that are sucky soft.
 
Keanen said:
Hi there, I have been using Nuclayer Systems Noscale for my AEB-L and D2. I would like to begin working with M390 but it needs protected to 2050 and the Nuclayer is only rated to 2000. Would I be able to push the limits another 50 degrees without hurting the steel or do I need to play it safe and purchase another compound? Thanks, Keanen
Click to expand...
My own experience with Nuclayer 2000 Noscale is that it's not the best so I definitely wouldn't push it beyond its rating. Larrin Thomas' article linked above by Seedy Lot was a big "aha" moment for me. I wouldn't use it for stainless and I plan on getting some Consdursal Z1100 for the next time I do a carbon blade. When you factor in the time you're screwing around with painting and drying the clay, the mess and the fuss and unevenness, it's way easier and more consistent just to use the foil for stainless and other air hardening steels. Yeah, it's pricey but so is your time.
 
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