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- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 12,955
This has come up recently for me hoping against hope that two blades I had would fit another folder out there. So my take on it is here. Chris may or may not agree with all of this but to the best of my knowledge and experience this is what I see going in. This question arises from time to time here and on other forums so lets look it over in some detail even though to some of you it may be old hat. The question?
If I buy a Sebenza blade on ebay or on the forums will it fit my Sebenza? Or, can I swap a regular Sebenza blade to my Classic body or vicea versa ? The fact is you can but it may not fit. In fact the odds that it will fit are slimmer than you may think. Lets look at why. It is not just a matter of the blade going in and the lock fitting. Even in the most consistent of brands this one aspect of the lock fit in the folder make up can be different from model to model but thats not the whole picture. There is more to it than this one aspect. If that was all there was too it you would have a lot better chance of the blade actually fitting.
First before you can even try the blade in to fit it and test it to the lock the bushing has to fit for the pivot. Unless you happen to own both knives or managed to get the bushing with the blade you bought, the bushing from your original blade may not even slide in the blade you have. Some bushings may fit right in and feel fine while they may actually be lose and out of tolerance. Some may be so tight they are hard to get in and out once you force it in the blade. Others may fit and be within tolerance though and if that is the case you can now proceed to the next step.
If the bushing fits the pivot hole in the blade does it stick out on each side of the blade correctly? Once you get it in the blade pivot that is only half the story with the bushing. It may or may not fit as it should for height. Blade stock thickness from sheet to sheet can vary and one blade may not measure the same as the next. Guess what? The parts are mated to the blades so the bushing you have is likely made to fit the original blade and the original blade only. It may be that the old bushing that came with that blade was taller than the one you have that is fit to your original blade that came on your knife. Or the bushing could have been shorter on this new blade you have. Its doubtful it was just like the one in your folder though. Try it in though and it may fit well enough for you to move on.
Okay so you've managed to figure out that the bushing fits in the pivot hole in the blade okay and good enough for you to move forward and you've determined that the washers can still fit on and around the bushing properly once that bushing is in place. What happens next is you try the blade in the folder and reassemble it. You could end up with an early lock up where the lock barely engages very much at all compared to your old blade or you could be in a situation where the lock engages alright but is sloppy and/or crosses the blade contact completely. In either case, you could end up with up and down blade play A/K/A vertical movement of the blade once locked open.
There is the off chance the blade and lock won't really even contact each other that much at all which can make for a real sloppy up and down movement of the blade. If this is the case it matters very little if the bushing fit properly or if the height of it was correct for the blade. Your experiment is over. The blade doesn't fit. But for the sake of argument lets pretend that the lock up fits but its early compared to your original blade. You can either say its too early or just right and move to the next step.
Providing its passed so far and you deem whatever type lock up you have to be correct you now need to look at the folder as it is assembled and check the blade for lateral movement next. That means side to side or back and forth blade play as opposed to up and down or vertical blade play. Just because the other aspects have passed does not mean that the body of the folder will be able to squeeze in on your new blade to correctly hold it in place the way it did your original blade. As I said earlier blade thickness from sheet to sheet and from knife to knife can vary. Your stand off spacers may be too tall for this new blade on your original folder body. If you have the complete folder the blade you are using came out of you may need to swap out all the stand offs from that folder to swap them as well as the blade. Modify the stand offs on your original folder and you may make your new blade fit but your old blade will no longer be within the tight specs it was after it left Chris at the factory and it may not fit right after that at all once you modify those parts. If it fits and passes the side to side aspect you can now move on. Startin' to get the picture?
Now providing all the other aspects of how the blade fits are looked at and passed what about the detent ball? The detent in case you didn't know it is the little ball bearing in the lock on the inside. That ball is your 'anti-gravity' device to keep the point of the blade safely down so it cannot be so likely to stick up during carry and bite you! If the ball does not grab properly it may be that even carrying this blade is an accident waiting to happen. When the blade closes the detent should hit the blade and the lock should move in slightly just as the blade comes to rest on the stop pin when closed. If it grabs correctly it should feel about like the original blade did. If you cannot feel that slight retention then it is not engaging properly and you would be ill advised to carry such a blade in your pocket, particularly in tip up carry mode. In some cases the detent ball can not only grab the blade but it may grab too tightly. Or it may grab the blade but the blade may want to continue on to travel toward the stop pin more because the ball seated before the blade was actually in contact with the stop so the lock detent ball falls in just fine but then lifts out as the blade continues to the stop pin. In yet other cases the detent may grab, just not enough to really do its job and certainly nothing like the original blade.
All of these aspects have to be accurate to make the blade fit and fit properly. Chris covers all this and more on his end to fit that first original blade to your folder. Look at it carefully once that new blade is in there because if you are honest with yourself you'll soon see its probably not as good as you may want to think it is. As you can see the chances of one of these aspects by itself being spot on are okay and odds may even be good for two or three of the fitting aspects of the blade to be within tolerance but the odds of all the aspects to match up so things are mating up properly within specs are pretty slim indeed. I think no matter how you slice it you end up with a compromise blade when you do this. So the next time someone tells you its a myth. Well, no, not so much.
STR
If I buy a Sebenza blade on ebay or on the forums will it fit my Sebenza? Or, can I swap a regular Sebenza blade to my Classic body or vicea versa ? The fact is you can but it may not fit. In fact the odds that it will fit are slimmer than you may think. Lets look at why. It is not just a matter of the blade going in and the lock fitting. Even in the most consistent of brands this one aspect of the lock fit in the folder make up can be different from model to model but thats not the whole picture. There is more to it than this one aspect. If that was all there was too it you would have a lot better chance of the blade actually fitting.
First before you can even try the blade in to fit it and test it to the lock the bushing has to fit for the pivot. Unless you happen to own both knives or managed to get the bushing with the blade you bought, the bushing from your original blade may not even slide in the blade you have. Some bushings may fit right in and feel fine while they may actually be lose and out of tolerance. Some may be so tight they are hard to get in and out once you force it in the blade. Others may fit and be within tolerance though and if that is the case you can now proceed to the next step.
If the bushing fits the pivot hole in the blade does it stick out on each side of the blade correctly? Once you get it in the blade pivot that is only half the story with the bushing. It may or may not fit as it should for height. Blade stock thickness from sheet to sheet can vary and one blade may not measure the same as the next. Guess what? The parts are mated to the blades so the bushing you have is likely made to fit the original blade and the original blade only. It may be that the old bushing that came with that blade was taller than the one you have that is fit to your original blade that came on your knife. Or the bushing could have been shorter on this new blade you have. Its doubtful it was just like the one in your folder though. Try it in though and it may fit well enough for you to move on.
Okay so you've managed to figure out that the bushing fits in the pivot hole in the blade okay and good enough for you to move forward and you've determined that the washers can still fit on and around the bushing properly once that bushing is in place. What happens next is you try the blade in the folder and reassemble it. You could end up with an early lock up where the lock barely engages very much at all compared to your old blade or you could be in a situation where the lock engages alright but is sloppy and/or crosses the blade contact completely. In either case, you could end up with up and down blade play A/K/A vertical movement of the blade once locked open.
There is the off chance the blade and lock won't really even contact each other that much at all which can make for a real sloppy up and down movement of the blade. If this is the case it matters very little if the bushing fit properly or if the height of it was correct for the blade. Your experiment is over. The blade doesn't fit. But for the sake of argument lets pretend that the lock up fits but its early compared to your original blade. You can either say its too early or just right and move to the next step.
Providing its passed so far and you deem whatever type lock up you have to be correct you now need to look at the folder as it is assembled and check the blade for lateral movement next. That means side to side or back and forth blade play as opposed to up and down or vertical blade play. Just because the other aspects have passed does not mean that the body of the folder will be able to squeeze in on your new blade to correctly hold it in place the way it did your original blade. As I said earlier blade thickness from sheet to sheet and from knife to knife can vary. Your stand off spacers may be too tall for this new blade on your original folder body. If you have the complete folder the blade you are using came out of you may need to swap out all the stand offs from that folder to swap them as well as the blade. Modify the stand offs on your original folder and you may make your new blade fit but your old blade will no longer be within the tight specs it was after it left Chris at the factory and it may not fit right after that at all once you modify those parts. If it fits and passes the side to side aspect you can now move on. Startin' to get the picture?
Now providing all the other aspects of how the blade fits are looked at and passed what about the detent ball? The detent in case you didn't know it is the little ball bearing in the lock on the inside. That ball is your 'anti-gravity' device to keep the point of the blade safely down so it cannot be so likely to stick up during carry and bite you! If the ball does not grab properly it may be that even carrying this blade is an accident waiting to happen. When the blade closes the detent should hit the blade and the lock should move in slightly just as the blade comes to rest on the stop pin when closed. If it grabs correctly it should feel about like the original blade did. If you cannot feel that slight retention then it is not engaging properly and you would be ill advised to carry such a blade in your pocket, particularly in tip up carry mode. In some cases the detent ball can not only grab the blade but it may grab too tightly. Or it may grab the blade but the blade may want to continue on to travel toward the stop pin more because the ball seated before the blade was actually in contact with the stop so the lock detent ball falls in just fine but then lifts out as the blade continues to the stop pin. In yet other cases the detent may grab, just not enough to really do its job and certainly nothing like the original blade.
All of these aspects have to be accurate to make the blade fit and fit properly. Chris covers all this and more on his end to fit that first original blade to your folder. Look at it carefully once that new blade is in there because if you are honest with yourself you'll soon see its probably not as good as you may want to think it is. As you can see the chances of one of these aspects by itself being spot on are okay and odds may even be good for two or three of the fitting aspects of the blade to be within tolerance but the odds of all the aspects to match up so things are mating up properly within specs are pretty slim indeed. I think no matter how you slice it you end up with a compromise blade when you do this. So the next time someone tells you its a myth. Well, no, not so much.
STR
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I'm just saying that it appears the odds of it working are slimmer than most think and that there are more things to check than just the lock up when you attempt to do this. :thumbup: Still I do know some guys that have tried it twice and said it worked both times and others that have tried it many many times and never had any success at all. It seems if the one that posted here about the swaps being a problem at Reeve knives is accurate that many people are attempting to do it. But hey. I did too! 
