Can O-1 tool steel be tempered without a heat treat oven?

[jones78]

I have been making slipjoint pocket knives lately and I was wanting to use O-1 tool steel. My question is can I temper it down to a spring temper using a house hold oven or a torch?

 

[Jeffinn]

Bill DeShivs and a few others have made a lot of springs using a torch for the heat treatment. I believe he uses 1095 for his springs. Hopefully he'll see your post and give you some input. You might be able to use the forum search function to find the info you're looking for.
Jeff

 

[JV Knives]

Short answer, yep…and your wife won’t like it!

 

[Bill DeShivs]

You can, but the heat treat will not be optimal.
There are heat treaters that will do it for you.
If you do it yourself, buy a cheap toaster oven.

 

[jones78]

Thanks for the help. I have made blades with
O-1 but never the back spring. I tried forging some O-1 chip carving knives a few years ago and that's how I realized you can't anneal it without a heat treat oven. Lol

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

JOnes,
Fill out your profile so we know where you live.

I suspect you are using the terms "Temper and Anneal" in a way that most of us use harden and temper.
Tempering is done after hardening to lower the hardness to a non-brittle and usable point.
Annealing is done to soften metal (before hardening) in order to machine and work on it easier.

 

[jones78]

JOnes,
Fill out your profile so we know where you live.

I suspect you are using the terms "Temper and Anneal" in a way that most of us use harden and temper.
Tempering is done after hardening to lower the hardness to a non-brittle and usable point.
Annealing is done to soften metal (before hardening) in order to machine and work on it easier.

When I said anneal I meant to a completely soft state. I was trying to file the small blades down after forging and the file would not cut the metal. I assumed I could soften the steel by heating non magnetic and placing in a bucket of lime. I know the 10xx steels will do this easily but I didn't account for the fact that tool steels are a different animal.
Sorry if I was not clear on my terms. I know O-1 can be tempered down to a working hardness for a blade using a kitchen oven but I didn't know if the back spring could be tempered using the kitchen oven.

 

[jones78]

@Jeffin ,
Using a 10xx steel would be a good idea for the springs.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Got it.
Yes, a 10XX steel would be better for a spring. Harden, then draw the temper to the mid/upper 40's. Temper at 675-725 (for 1095).
You can do this with a torch by eye and color with some practice, since a kitchen oven or toaster oven won't hit that temp.
1095 can be annealed by heating to red and placing in lime or vermiculite for a couple hours.

O-1 would need 850-900°F for a spring temper in the 45-48 range.
Annealing O-1 requires a HT oven.

 

[JV Knives]

When I said anneal I meant to a completely soft state. I was trying to file the small blades down after forging and the file would not cut the metal. I assumed I could soften the steel by heating non magnetic and placing in a bucket of lime. I know the 10xx steels will do this easily but I didn't account for the fact that tool steels are a different animal.
Sorry if I was not clear on my terms. I know O-1 can be tempered down to a working hardness for a blade using a kitchen oven but I didn't know if the back spring could be tempered using the kitchen oven.

Yea when you said temper, I'm thinking 350ish area F based on the chart. That...you can do unevenly in a kitchen oven The higher temps required to "anneal" back to a soft state are too high for a traditional oven. Good luck!

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

If we had a little better idea where you lived besides "USA", someone near you might offer to do the HT for you.

BTW, I added some more info to my last post.

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

Try it.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

That video shows how fellows like Bill Moran did their springs. Bill had a steel baking pan he set on the coals and put in kerosene. It worked quite well. It does take practice and safety precautions.

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

That video shows how fellows like Bill Moran did their springs. Bill had a steel baking pan he set on the coals and put in kerosene. It worked quite well. It does take practice and safety precautions.

I mention Keith Johnson of Great River Forge, who I consider one of the best slip joint makers alive today. This is how he still tempers his carbon steel slippies and uses the same sardine can he has used for years with used motor oil.