Can o' Worms - What's a Knifemaker?

ddavelarsen

ddavelarsen

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Dec 7, 2000
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In the recent KI there was an article where the author made a valiant effort to define that point at which a person actually becomes a knifemaker. He mentioned a Guild show where early makers kind of agreed one had to have made at least 300 knives before he could assume the mantle of "cutler". The author, like I do, generally thought otherwise - it's a quality issue; quantity doesn't make a knifemaker, craftsmanship does.

Then last week I had the extreme good fortune to enjoy a visit from fellow forumite Ken Simmons. He's heard the demarkation between hobbiest and knifemaker can be stated as 12 knives per year.

Frankly I hadn't given either of these any real thought; I've always thought of myself as a knifemaker, albeit a lame one, a maker deeply in need of improved skills but fully graced with the blood of a cutler.

Now what? By the quality measure it'll be a long while before I can call myself a knifemaker :) even though I get good money for my better knives; by the second measure I will probably be a knifemaker this year for the first time.

If I'm opening a can of worms with this I apologize up front. I call myself a knifemaker but wonder if I have the right to, alongside you folks most of whom certainly qualify by any standard.

Dave
 
This is a good question:D
When I first started I was making 2-3 knives a week although they were not up to the standards I wanted I was learning.Now as I get more refined and am trying to learn more things then my quantity of knives has decreased dramatically.Some of my knives now can take 2-3 weeks to complete.So I guess that if you have to make X amount of knives a year then I am also not a knife maker.And on another note it took me almost 3 years or 4 years before I ever even got close to the 300 knife mark while I was doing this part time..
Just to add a little bit to your question here.What about the big names like Moran or even the late D.E.Henry who don't or didn't make but a dozen knives a year,were they not considered knifemakers or cutlers?

For my opinion on this subject,WE are ALL knifemakers as long as we don't just make one or two and quit,I feel as long as you keep making knives no matter how many in a year you are a cutler...As for how long do you have to make knives to pay your dues in the business? That is actually up to the customers not us makers.We can say that to get a title you need to be in this so long but unless you are in the A.B.S. were they have a time frame and rules with tests,then you can actually call yourself what you want when you want.But you better live up to what you say or the public will see through you.
I guess what I am trying to say is that a name is just that a name but your actions and skills will tell the tale for you.
Heck is a mechanic who just opened up a shop after getting out of school any less a mechanic than the old man down the street from him.By name no by reputation he will have to prove himself if this makes any sense..
Guess I better quit rambling..
Bruce
 
If your not a knife maker you'll know it..for many reasons..
dave don't worry about it.
The customer will be your judge.:)
there are some makers that think they are it.
As long as I'm learning I'm still becoming a maker.
if you stop learning theres something wrong or you
just think you know it all. :( :footinmou ?
 
Good topic, nearly impossible to answer. I suppose in the strictest sense, if you made one and are making one, your are one. Then there are the questions of quality, quantity and tenure. Guess you could earn the title by the number of scars and burnt digets. Instead of ABS certification you could just submit pics of your wounds to this forum and when you reach 500? your it, A knifemaker. :D Terry
 
IMO, a lot of these differentiations are thought up by people who are looking to set "themselves apart and above the rest. In other words, exclude everyone but a select few.:barf:
 
If you make knives, no matter how many or how slow I'd say you are a knife maker. You could be full time, part time or just a hobbiest. Anything else is snobbish hogwash. 'course, that's just my opinion.
 
Dave, don't worry about it. You qualify as a knifemaker. We all set our own standards for our work. I draw a line between knifemaker and Professional knifemaker. In my opinion I fit catagory one but not number two. That's by my standards. I turn out as many knives as many professional knifemakers so it's sure not the quantity. Mine cut as well as most and are as durable as most so the quality issue goes out of the window. I am not the Craftsman that many are and have no artistic talent at all so I think that is where I would look for a title between Knifemaker and PRO.

The industry has it's own certification standards for professional knifemakers. These have been set by the Professional Knifemakers for the Professional Knifemakers. For the rest of us that just enjoy developing the skills and for those of you like yourself that are rapidly moving up the ladder, you can certainly call yourselves a "Knifemaker" with pride.
 
I read the same article, which seemed not to come to any conclusion, but opened the topic for discussion. I know can't agree with any method in the article that tried to quantify or qualify what is a knifemaker - and I don't believe you can do that, there are too many variables to come up with an objective way.

As a new knifemaker, I can only say that all the previous posts in this thread have said most anything I could say extremely well. I will only add this: For me it seem that knifemakers I have met are people who want to be rid of rules, labels, exclusivesness and constraints - that's why I like knifemaking and this forum.

Anyhow - I wouldn't even give it space on my list of things to loose sleep over...

Bob

http://www.southrivermodelworks.com/
http://www.southrivermodelworks.com/page15b.html
 
Well there is as many opinions as there is
well, you get the idea. Some people say I`m
a knifemaker, I don`t but thats just my opinion.
What I do is take good steel an grind it into dust:rolleyes:

The bottom line is that its your customers that makes the
call if you`re a knifemaker or not

Just my $.02 but what the hell do I know
 
Isn't it safe to say that much like any Craftsman, there are varying degrees of that craft? Is an apprentice machinist any less entitled to claim he's a member of the craft, than a journeyman or master?
Aren't they all just at different levels of their craft.

I've made a few knives, but that doesn't make me a make I'm more of a hobbiest. My intention is to someday be able to offer quality blades for sale, but my true satisfaction comes from a well made blade made by my two hands to a standard comparable to the knives offered by professional makers.
 
Does really really trying to be one count? :D
Jokes apart, I guess it depends just from what you do.
Do you MAKE KNIVES?
Then you are a KNIFE MAKER...
 
IMO a lot of this arguement comes down to a limit in vocabulary.

i think that "knifemaker" is as broad a term as you can get.
i think that where people get caught up is that some people think of knifemaker as a title and others as a classifcation.. and some who think it is just a simple term.

i know that i got into trouble when i started out because i was told that a knifemaker was someone who grinds a piece of metal into a blade, as opposed to someone who forges ...
and me, knowing nothing, accepted this classification as the truth.

but, i dont think this debate is strictly for our field of interest.
i remember times past when i used to sell my sketches.. and people would come to me and ask if i was an artist... and upon my reply of 'no' ... they would wrinkle their noses at me and carry on their way.
how many sketches do you need to do before you are an artist?
how many blades do you have to make before you are a knifemaker?

what the heck is a knifemaker?
its personal... everyone has their own ideas.
i think that when you are ready to call yourself a knifemaker, thats good enough and it isnt something that we can judge other people by.

i believe that i am a knifemaker, because i make knives.
the friend i was speaking to this evening is also a knifemaker ... sure he only makes 1 or 2 blades in a year .. but he never stops making and doesnt care to sell his blades, just to enjoy himself in what he does.

like it has already been said ... a good question .. just impossible to answer.
only possible to give your opinion.
which i hope i have rambled enough to explain my opinion.
:D

D.
 
Good question, tough answers. I really don't have much to say because it pretty much has been said by all the above KNIFEMAKERS. I guess it's more a matter of perception. That of yourself and your product but, most importantly of what your customers think of you and your work.

I have 20 acres, a few cows, goats, chickens, rabbits, etc. Am I only a farmer once I have 200 head and supply supermarket chains?

J.
http://www.mountainhollow.net
and farm!
 
Thanks for all the replies, it's refreshing that we're generally not too caught up in all the hair splitting that goes on among collectors and historian types. I actually got my shorts in a bunch there for a day or so, wondering whether I could really hang out my shingle or should just kinda sit off in the corner all quiet like.

I do think of myself as a knifemaker, but haven't had enough customers - not the using kind anyway - to know whether they'd judge me so. We'll see, eh? When I get on the cover of Blade or Rolling Stone I'll send copies to my kids. :)

Dave
 
Well Dave, you all know my train of thought concerning selling knives before your ready. I can't tell you what and when to do anything but if my knives looked like yours, I'd hang out the shingle. Hope that helps!;)
 
Dave, If my opinion counts; I say you are a knifemaker if you have sold a knife as a useing knife. To be used is a knifes first and most important task. Art knives may be mild steel, who knows? Make the best knife you can with the choicest materials and the best heat-treat possible and be prepared to back them up with a guarantee. Stay abreast of modern information and steels ect so your customers dont know more than you do hopefully. Dont be shy about the prices if you know its a good knife. If you are not sure its a good knife beat the hell out of it and bend it in the vice. Thats how you learn to make good knives. People love to see what a good knife will go through. Its a great sales tool too.

Now hang out the shingle!
 
Dave I also would say you`re a knifemaker.
Go a head an hang out your shingle man.
But hey what do I know I`m not a Bump,Nap,
Evans or any other of the top makers we have
here at BF. I`m just a:grumpy: old man
 
if you grind and or forge the blade yourself you are a knife maker. if you put handles on other peoples blades you are a'''' handler. nuff said!
 
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