Can this win us balilovers?

Joined
Mar 7, 2001
Messages
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I got this quoted by MacCanine:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">"Any idiot can point a gun and pull a trigger..it takes a decent amount of skill,speed and grace to use a sword to it's full potential."</font>

Replace sword with balisong, and idiot with idiot & scum, I think we have a strong argument.
 
Good call
smile.gif


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~Dave

"One in the hand is worth two in the sheath"
 
yeah, i've always thought something similar regarding an edged weapon

as was mentioned another thread, it also requires something which is not gracefull and that something is bestial

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if you wanta play it dumb, you gotta be tough
 
No, an "idiot" is someone that that does not realize that the same people who wish to ban guns are banning every type of knife they can.

An "idiot" does not realize that every argument used to ban guns is currently being used to ban knives.

The Original Quote, and you two guys throwing it around and/or agreeing with it as if it is the Gospel are exhibiting extraordinary amounts of idiocy at the moment.

Back in the mid-1980s, a few Gun Grabbers that were somewhat frustrated at their attempts to ban firearms got together and wrote a Bill that would have controlled Mail Order Sales of Martial Arts Weapons. Their intent was to begin a snowball of Legislation with the ultimate goal of banning these types of weapons.

You guys are throwing out these quaint little derogatory remarks and apparently you don't know much about firearms. It does take skill to use a firearm. You can choose to believe that or not. I can tell you for a fact it is true. You can wallow in your own personal prejudice all you want, that does not change the truth.

The problem is, it takes no skill to walk up to someone and whip the handgun out and stick it in their gut or face and pull the trigger. However, it takes no skill to walk up to someone and stick a knife in them either, regardless of what type of knife it is. A Gangbanger can sit and learn one opening with a Balisong and be able to do this in a short amount of time. You think he has to know how to do aerials to be a Knifer?

Therefore, your comments are null and void.

I see these little jabs from time to time on here, and they make me sick.

By all means, agree with Gun Control, you have a right to your opinion, just don't be surprised when you learn that owning a simple Balisong Knife is on equal, illegal territory with owning an "Assault Weapon."

Furthermore, if the forces that wish to ban Firearms are successful, then any type of knife that can be used for "fighting" and is designed for such activity should be banned...why? It's a concept called, "consistency."

Meaning, if people are going to blame inanimate objects for the acts of criminals, the insane and those morons that handle them in an unsafe manner, then consistency would dictate that all edged tools/weapons that pose the same "threat" to society should be banned.

In other words, your Elite Little Club won't exist. Sure, you can do all sorts of things to make sure you have your cherished little sharp instruments, and if caught, they can put you in Prison with some real criminals who will be thoroughly impressed with your ability to twirl a plexiglass or steel bedrail shank...

Back to the Foes of all weapons, because that is neutral and informative...

Here are three articles for you to read. Enjoy them. Flame me if you want. Turn the valve on the torch and light it. That does not make you right either.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><font color=red>"Good Intentions,The Possible Demise of Weapons Practice

by Dr. Karl Duff, Attorney at Law

In October I was privileged to testify before the Judiciary Committee of the United States Senate about a bill which, as originally drafted, banned mail order sales of nunchaku, shuriken and manrikigusari. As I understand it, the bill (proposed by Senator Edward Kennedy) was the result of proponents' efforts to stem what they perceive as a tremendous threat to our society.
I had the opportunity to hear the proponents of S-1363 testify before the Committee. However, as I listened to testimony from a number of sources, I couldn't help but ask if there was really a problem of sufficient national magnitude to merit federal prohibitions.

The opening statement of the Justice Department advocating a complete, much broader ban than Senator Kennedy's proposal, seems to be based on the limited and non-measurable basis of some FBI agents at Quantico, Virginia, complaining that they were seizing more martial arts weapons from criminals than in the past. However, the Justice Department presented no hard data documenting how many weapons of each kind were being seized, and there was no comparison over time to accurately indicate any sort of trend."
</font></font>

Click here to read the rest...

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><font color=red>" I was informed just one-half hour prior my oral testimony that part of my written argument, an aspect I deemed essential, had been stricken from the record. Through my written testimony, I was attempting to refute claims made by the opposition in its written brief.
Originally, our side was allowed three panelists. They included: Dr. Karl Duff, Dr. Stephen Holbrook, and myself. The opposition, headed by -subcommittee chairman Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.). was given seven speakers. Our number increased by one, however, when Jhoon Rhee was added to the list at the eleventh hour. Each panel member was given five minutes to present his views. Rhee, Duff and Holbrook gave immeasurable support to the martial artist's use through explanations of state and federal laws concerning the case, Bill writing the cutlery legislative committee, also, contributed greatly to the cause.

The opposition was quick to illustrate the offensive and illegal uses of the nunchaku. But it conveniently left out the hundreds of self- defense blocks and training techniques more associated with the weapon."
</font></font>

Click here to read the rest...

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"><font color=red>"The martial arts community is presently experiencing a similar phenomenon, a regulation epidemic spawned by people driving in the fog with no respect to what's good or bad for the martial arts community. Senate Bill S-1363 presently before Congress, which would regulate the sale of certain martial arts weapons, has brought martial arts under a watchful eye. The martial community is now seen in a different light by state officials. Legislation has been introduced in New Jersey that would regulate all martial arts activities, schools, sports, demonstrations, certification, etc. In Texas, similar legislation is being considered for martial competition, while in Pennsylvania, regulations have been introduced that far exceed the federal bill in its present form. California is looking at import restrictions on martial arts weapons, and the Justice Department and the U.S. Post Office want S-1363's restrictions broadened."</font></font>

Click here to read the rest...

Hey, support Gun Control! Then they will turn on you my friends...that's a fact. They will take your support to destroy a basic, civil and human right [Self-defense] and then they will turn on you and eat you alive. They will stack Committees against you [read the articles], they will lie, bring false statistics to the table and proclaim them to be facts that cannot and should not be disputed...and if you say something that is damning to their argument, they will strike that portion of your Testimony. Again, read the articles.

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Usual Suspect, Electromagnet for Trolls and Manipulator of Sharp Things... Some of my Knives and other neat things

[This message has been edited by Don Rearic (edited 06-05-2001).]
 
Chuck and RKnight,

The comments were not aimed at you, that was lengthy and after I posted it, the page refreshed and your Posts appeared.
 
Hello Don,

Originally posted by Don Rearic:
No, an "idiot" is someone that that does not realize that the same people who wish to ban guns are banning every type of knife they can.

>> "They" can, and "They" will. All under the guise of "Public Safety". And to "protect the children". Take a look at our friends who hang out here from the UK, and what they've done in Aussieland, and our socialist neighbors to the North, and what you have there is a model of what certain political interests intend to do here as well. The UN is looking at banning personal 'small arms' ownership throughout the world. That would include the US of A.

An "idiot" does not realize that every argument used to ban guns is currently being used to ban knives.

>> Absolute truth there.

You guys are throwing out these quaint little derogatory remarks and apparently you don't know much about firearms. It does take skill to use a firearm. You can choose to believe that or not. I can tell you for a fact it is true. You can wallow in your own personal prejudice all you want, that does not change the truth.

>> Thank you for that, I flinched a bit at the derogatory comments regarding the use of small arms. I have through the years spent a lot of time and practice to be a competant shooter and I can about personally 100% gaurentee that if you bring a knife or sword to a gunfight with me, you're gonna lose.

Therefore, your comments are null and void.

I see these little jabs from time to time on here, and they make me sick.

By all means, agree with Gun Control, you have a right to your opinion, just don't be surprised when you learn that owning a simple Balisong Knife is on equal, illegal territory with owning an "Assault Weapon."

Furthermore, if the forces that wish to ban Firearms are successful, then any type of knife that can be used for "fighting" and is designed for such activity should be banned...why? It's a concept called, "consistency."

Meaning, if people are going to blame inanimate objects for the acts of criminals, the insane and those morons that handle them in an unsafe manner, then consistency would dictate that all edged tools/weapons that pose the same "threat" to society should be banned.

Back to the Foes of all weapons, because that is neutral and informative...

Hey, support Gun Control! Then they will turn on you my friends...that's a fact. They will take your support to destroy a basic, civil and human right [Self-defense] and then they will turn on you and eat you alive. They will stack Committees against you [read the articles], they will lie, bring false statistics to the table and proclaim them to be facts that cannot and should not be disputed...and if you say something that is damning to their argument, they will strike that portion of your Testimony. Again, read the articles.

>>Totally right on point sir. And if I might go out on a limb here, I would impress on anyone who is a collector/hobyist of any sort of edged weapons, that you join and support the NRA. They are without doubt the one major friend you have in protecting the 2nd Amendment, and your God Given Right to protect your life, or someone else's, with deadly force if necessary. These aforementioned countries have taken that very basic fundamental right away from their citizens, and 'they' will do it here as well, if they can.

Thanks for allowing me to add my $0.02.

Phil


[This message has been edited by UnclePhilthy (edited 06-05-2001).]
 
A photographer visits his friend for dinner. Before the meal he shows his friend some pictures. "Wow, these are nice pictures. You must have a nice camera!" said the photographer's friend. He stared and sat down for dinner. After the meal, the photographer said "Wow, that was good food. You must have nice pots and pans!".

Just trying to lighten the mood, but I think you get my point.
 
Jeeez, how about "Any idiot can thumb out a folder and make jabbing motions, it takes a decent amount of skill, speed, and grace to use a balisong to it's full potential." Does that satisfy you guys?

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Small minds discuss people,
Average minds discuss events,
Great minds discuss ideas.
 
"It takes a great amount of skill to use a firearm to its' full potential."

That's conveniently being lost here...because some folks iz ignernt.

I'd love to see one of these youngsters grab my Benelli Shotgun and even attempt to do what I can do with it.

I could sit back with a cup of 7-11 coffee and laugh my ass off as they dusted their's off...

I know I can be a prick sometimes, it's a gift.

What I despise is when people are insulting pricks and they're so devoid of reality they don't even realize they're offensive.
 
You know,when I wrote that some time back,it was in a certain context.I can see where Chris was going with this thread,and can understand it.Some of you though are taking my descriptions in a slightly off manner.

I do know how much skill it takes to use a gun.If you're into shooting as a skill,then yes,it does take a lot of practice and learning.But,as is witnessed by what we see happening in many areas these days,there are a lot of "idiots" pulling the trigger of a gun,without having *any* training with them whatsoever.All these "idiots" that I referred to in that quote only know that to use a gun,you just point and pull a trigger.Sure,it's not as effective as having enough training in the weapon to know how to aim properly so that you use less ammo and cause the greatest amount of damage with fewer shots.Yet these idiots do manage to do a great amount of damage with absolutely no training whatsoever with the weapon.
I have shot guns since I was a young pup.My father was a hunter,and taught me well in the areas of gun safety & skill.Having worked with Law Enforcement and having known many LEO's in my lifetime,I have seen how the simplistic approach of "point & pull the trigger" can cause great damage in the hands of a complete "idiot".Therefore,my statement that any "idiot" can use a gun stands true..and I'm not the first or only one who has ever said this.

I myself do not care for guns,but I don't believe that *all* guns should be taken away from the general public.I cannot see any real purpose behind the general public being able to own *some* certain types of guns though.Standard handguns,rifles & shotguns which can be used for hunting and/or defense of one's property & life are acceptable logically.Anything beyond this is ridiculous.

As for the part of my statement that says that it takes more skill to use a sword,this is true when looked at it in proper context.Yes,even an "idiot" can pick up a sword and use it,but not nearly as effectively as he could with a gun.



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*The* Lunatic Puppy
It wasn't me...It was my *good* twin..
My "inner puppy" made me do it..
 
MacCanine,

Exactly the points I understood it: it is easier for an untrained person to point and pull a trigger of a gun than use the sword. Both will not be to the fullest potential, but gun will work better than a sword (or a bali as I propose).

Don, your points are also true. Those who support banning weapon instead of making a better community will soon turn to knife/ves once guns are out.

My personal view is here (I don't intend to flame you ..
smile.gif
)

An idiot with a gun will be more difficult to deal with than an idiot with a bali, given I have only my bali with me. I am not talking about fancy manipulation here, but the defense situation.

Thus the quote from MacCanine was raised as our knife lovers last defense line. They can ban gun because an idiot/scum/jerk gets to use it easier, but we can still argue that letting citizen (good ones) legally having knife will make life more difficult for the BGs.

Bottom line: Don is right. We have to fight for our rights to defend ourselves. However, MacCanine also is right in the said context as the legal move against it is progressing, that quotation might be a block along its way.

I thought democracy is about expressing opinions without getting emotional about it and see the other side of the coin and enrich each other? I live in a country that is still trying to understand the meaning of freedom and integrity, human rights, etc. and certainly do not want USA becoming less free than the founding fathers (or mothers) declared independence and set the constitution.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Chris Anagarika:
An idiot with a gun will be more difficult to deal with than an idiot with a bali, given I have only my bali with me. I am not talking about fancy manipulation here, but the defense situation.

I thought democracy is about expressing opinions without getting emotional about it and see the other side of the coin and enrich each other?
</font>

I think Knife Vs. Gun is a matter of range. I would rather have a "Gangbanger" trying to point a handgun sideways than actively flailing with a knife.

There is a degree of truth in the concept that a firearm is easier to use which is why it is so valuable for Self-defense, especially for women and older people, etc. However, that is still a far cry from what you see in the beginning of this thread.

The very purpose of this Thread, if I even understand this [it seems absurd to me] is that we should offer up the whole *IDEA* that Guns are far more dangerous because it takes less skill to use them.

Look at the title of the thread, "Can this win us balilovers?" Do I understand the intent correctly?

It looks to me that one group [Balilovers] wish to offer up another group [gunlovers, if you will] as the sacrificial lamb, as some sort of magical protection against offensive legislation...

That's not going to happen and that was the spirit that I intended my post(s).

I intended for mine to be an eye-opener, this battle over guns and knives as been going on for a long time in this country and I hate to see one side out of complete ignorance cannibalize the other.

As far as this being a Democracy, my thoughts on that are clearly stated in this thread on the current Switchblade Fiasco in Florida.

http://www.knifeforums.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/001907.html





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Usual Suspect
Ipsa scientia potestas est aut disce aut discede
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
Don,

Thanks for clarifying the matter. Now I can see it better and fully agree that we shouldn't 'sacrifice' gun owner for 'balilover', but we should fight our rights side by side.

On a different context, the statement should stand as MacCanine has pointed out.

On democracy, it is really an interesting reading, although your posting is rather 'heavy'
wink.gif
. My own democracy thing is the minimum: freedom of speech, and opinion.

It is an eye opener indeed.


[This message has been edited by Chris Anagarika (edited 06-07-2001).]
 
True,we are all entitled to our opinions,and should be glad that we are still able to voice them.

I can understand Don's point of view,since I know many others who believe the same way.
I don't believe however that both guns & knives will be *completely* taken away from the general public.In any case,we should all work together to make sure that this doesn't happen.

The main problem with those who want to ban things such as guns & knives,is the fact that most of them do not realize that *anything* in the wrong hands can be dangerous.Plus,they think that all the methods used to go after the actual criminals have failed,therefore they're trying to stem the tide of criminal acts by going after the weaponry that are supposedly the types preferred by the criminals (or the easiest for them to get).What they don't realize is the fact that by going after the weaponry,they only make the demand for such things even bigger (which is why the black market has managed to thrive for so long) and only increases the amount of theft of such weaponry.

So,what would be the best method to combat such stupidity in the political ranks? Well,there's always the method of educating these people to the truth of their misguided actions,and showing them that for every moronic scumbag that commits a crime using one of the weapons that are under a threat of getting banned,that there are hundreds who have/use the same thing(s) *responsibly*.But,here we run into another problem...most of them are stubborn as hell and too stupid to be able to use their minds properly to see that all they're doing is creating more problems.

But,as is always the case,governments change,and so do the laws that they make.In time,if we help to educate the future lawmakers,we can end up with people who will actually look at the facts and ponder them well *before* jumping to misguided conclusions.This is what we need to strive for.

I do see where Chris was originally intending for this thread to go.I believe that he misjudged his wording though,which has led to a debate where no side can truly be the winner,since there are always going to be strong opinions on each side.
But,I think that if we can discuss the possibilities of what *we* can help do to ensure that stupid laws are revoked and never made again,then the discussion is worth it,since we all have valid points that can be used towards such ends.

I think this would also be a good thing for the "Balisong Club" members to look into in the future,if it becomes a definite reality with enough members.


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*The* Lunatic Puppy
It wasn't me...It was my *good* twin..
My "inner puppy" made me do it..
 
BTW,I don't think Chris meant to "sacrifice" the gun people.I think it was just a poor choice of replacement wording.
Maybe a better line would be..

"Any idiot can pick up a pen and help write a stupid law...it takes someone with good common sense who is willing to look at *all the facts* and weigh them properly before committing themselves to a misguided choice in creating laws which are to be *for* the people,not *against* them."

Sorry,my *evil* puppy made me do this
smile.gif



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*The* Lunatic Puppy
It wasn't me...It was my *good* twin..
My "inner puppy" made me do it..
 
Personally, I think if Knife Owners, Gun Owners, Owners of large, working breeds of dogs to include "Guard" dogs, Martial Artists and those that are into M.A. Weapons, all above and beyond the Balisong and Switchblade Groups...all need to recognize that the same sorry group of sonsabitches are out to ban these things...

Take Nunchaku, for example, they can be flashy, you could use them for Self-defense~the practicality of that in Modern Day is another topic, but you could use them for that purpose...

Or you could simply like the flash, the twirling and fast spinning routines. They're beautiful!

So are Balisongs...so are many things. There is an ugly side as well...to both, to many things...beauty does not always conquer ugliness nor good the evil.

<font color=red><center>"The blade arts must not be confused. They are not a sports game! It is about life and death! When you look at the blade on the flow of traditional angles, the movements are very beautiful. Once they are used in actual combat or in use for real, they turn dark, very dark. It could be a very beautiful art, if you look at it that way. Just hope you don't have to use it or call on the dark side."</center></font>
~Guro Sonny Umpad, Full Contact Magazine, 1995

Some people tend to focus on things as weapons, and they always will. So what of it? I don't particularly like Minivans, and I'm sure they have killed alot of people, I don't lobby anyone with written letter, FAX, E-mail or phone call to ban them. Pick what you don't like and apply that.

But, by all means, look at what you are holding in your hands before you cast a stone...

There is something about the word "GUN." All logic goes out the window. They cannot apply Universal Truths and Logic to the debate. Not necessarily in THIS thread, but in General.

How many of you have had a Friend or Loved One killed by a Drunk Driver? I have never had Family Member killed by one, but I have had a Friend killed by one. In all of the heart-wrenching sorrow that followed for such a tragic waste of life, I never saw one of his relatives at the Viewing, Funeral or Wake...or any time afterwards start ranting and raving about how we should go back to Prohibition or ban Automobiles.

Did a Registration stop the Drunk Driver? Of course not, neither did a Driver's License, that is why all of those things are Red Herrings in the Gun Control Debate...

When you mention "Gun" or you mention "Knife," or in some circles, "Martial Arts..." People tend to come unglued...because they don't see people in the mix like they do with Drunk Driving.

It just pains me to see people that enjoy what is basically a knife looked upon with great disdain by the Mainstream, and then fall into the same stupid box that their critics live in, when it comes to firearms.

[Dismount soapbox]

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Usual Suspect
Ipsa scientia potestas est aut disce aut discede
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
MacCanine,

My post was in edit mode while you post yours, thus I read it after I posted mine (that came before yours)

Thank you for clarifying on my behalf. My original intention as stated not so clearly
smile.gif
is to fight for us all and not to 'sacrifice' some to win others. As I said somewhere else, if the banning of guns have won, we knife lovers at least still can try to stop the 'snowball' effect using that quotation.

Of course the most updated quotation generated by the lunatic puppy is the best!and will better serve us, balilovers.

Don, my apology if the wording is not that proper and the impression resulting in you have to clarify the whole issue that actually might have been clear since the beginning.
 
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