Can we talk about sharpening?

L

L2bravo

Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
800
Hey guys, I'm a new guy here. Ive been into knives on and off throughout my life. But never on the road I'm on now. One with higher end stuff, and more tech. I used to sharpen with an Arkansas set of stones, and shaving was the benchmark. LOL, my how things change.

I would like some help in understanding some things. I'll try not to make this too long.

1. I recently bought a Sharpmaker, and love it. It makes things sharp, for sure. I also got the UF sticks for it. As I now am understanding, there are "limitations" to this system. Would it be also good to buy some stones like the Spyderco stones? The reason I ask, is I also have an indian Norton stone (8'' bench). I used it the other day to reprofile an older Al Mar that I had. I then followed up with the Sharpmaker. It came out pretty dang good. As far as stones go, is there any place for the old black, super hard Arkansas stone still? Such as for final polishing and such?

2. When is it neccesary to reprofile a blade? I get it the very basic how, but not the when.

3. When people talk about a "toothy" edge, what is meant, and how do you get that? I think I understand, that sometimes, a little rougher edge will cut better than a polished shaving edge. Is this thinking correct?

Any additional help, with angles, bevels, and the like, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the help guys.
 
ad. 1 If you get your knives sharp your system works! Hard Arkansas has a reputation of being good for putting fine edges on low wear resistant steels. E.g. good for woodworking, shaving or if you just like that kind of edge :-)

ad. 2 It depends on lost of factors: the use, the user, the steel, the heat tread, the geometry... The theory is that you can get it as thin as possible that is will not chip of fold easily. Many modern knives can be improved by thinning the edge.

ad. 3 The coarser the stone the 'toothier' the edge. Roughly speaking: the coarser the finnish the more aggressive it will slice, the finer the finnish the better it will push gut. For edc knives I would say somewhere in the middle. Trail and error and the fun of playing with edges will show you what works for you. :-)
 
Hey mate, I'll try to answer your questions:
1- spyderco's sharp maker is a great device but the problem is when an edge needs a little more work, that is why some people prefers to call it sharpkeeper. The Norton is a great stone in doing what it is suppose: make things cut ;). Tha hard Arkansas is also great but when you confront wear resistant steel is slow and in my experience in sharpening slow means inconsistent angles, worst results

2- here an example, I bought a GEC 62 whittler, sharpened it and try to carve some wood, the knife was shaving sharp but the angle and the thickness of the blade made it split the wood. REPROFILED!!

3- another example, spyderco's VG-10 is known for taking a great polished edge, I was working with my Delica 4 sharpened to 8000 grit (Japanese) and strop. I had to cut some plastic stuff and the edge didn't bite into it, so a couple of passes on a DMT fine 600 grit, and it melted through it .

Hope it helps
Mateo
 
in all the years of sharpening, i found a toothier edge cuts the best. i never go over 400 grit on any knife i sharpen but i do buff the edge with a medium grit white compound on a paper wheel which is how i maintain any of my knives without working up a new burr (unless i need to).
 
L2bravo said:
Hey guys, I'm a new guy here. Ive been into knives on and off throughout my life. But never on the road I'm on now. One with higher end stuff, and more tech. I used to sharpen with an Arkansas set of stones, and shaving was the benchmark. LOL, my how things change.

I would like some help in understanding some things. I'll try not to make this too long.

1. I recently bought a Sharpmaker, and love it. It makes things sharp, for sure. I also got the UF sticks for it. As I now am understanding, there are "limitations" to this system. Would it be also good to buy some stones like the Spyderco stones? The reason I ask, is I also have an indian Norton stone (8'' bench). I used it the other day to reprofile an older Al Mar that I had. I then followed up with the Sharpmaker. It came out pretty dang good. As far as stones go, is there any place for the old black, super hard Arkansas stone still? Such as for final polishing and such?

2. When is it neccesary to reprofile a blade? I get it the very basic how, but not the when.

3. When people talk about a "toothy" edge, what is meant, and how do you get that? I think I understand, that sometimes, a little rougher edge will cut better than a polished shaving edge. Is this thinking correct?

Any additional help, with angles, bevels, and the like, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the help guys.
Click to expand...

1. The limitations people are talking about are the reality that it's hard to truly sharpen a dull blade with the SharpMaker because the angle might not match, and thus it would take forever to do it the SharpMaker way, one stroke on each side, because you'd have to wear away the bevel shoulder and bring the angle down until you are actually hitting the apex (the very edge). Plus the medium (brown) stones they give you with the set are too slow to really reprofile an edge to match the SharpMaker angle. This can be corrected by abandoning the "one stroke on each side" technique and treating the rods more like stones (CrimsonTideShooter, aka JDavis882, has a great video showing his technique for using a SharpMaker). The addition of the diamond rods gives you the cutting power you need to reprofile.

2. Reprofiling a blade is only necessary if its really damaged or the angle is inappropriate for the knife and its intended use. Once you have a correct angle set and a good bevel established, you shouldn't need to reprofile unless you damage the edge. The edge will get dull with use, and you just follow your same angle and sharpen.

3. You'll understand toothy if you try it yourself. Sharpen a knife with a coarse stone to true sharp and cut a tomato. Sharpen a knife and refine it to 30K with a Shapton Glass stone and cut a tomato. You will see how a refined, glass edge can be detrimental to slicing cuts. They say a refined polish is better for push cuts, and a toothy edge is better for draw cuts. Cutting things like rope and tomatoes is the best example.
 
I prefer a slightly coarser or toothy edge for precisely the reason M_G points out.

I ended up adding a Dia-Sharp diamond dual sided bench stone in Coarse/Extra Coarse to round out the Sharpmaker's medium and finer crock sticks. I'd gotten just the coarse Dia-Sharp but sent it back for exchange.

I would think for many folks who just want to maintain a sharp edge or create one, a combo like this (or with the Sharpmaker diamond rods) would be a pretty good set-up. If sharpening becomes a hobby in and of itself, well, you can read this forum and see what some guys do. :D
 
I really appreciate the insight guys. I can tell you, that I really enjoy sharpening knives. I'm not sure how overboard I will take this, but I usually have a habit of doing that though. I ordered the diamond stick for the Sharpmaker today. We'll see how they work. Thanks again
 
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