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Can you damage H1 by heating it?

1

10fingers

Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
660
Since H1 is not heat treated like other steels can you damage it by sharpening it on a mini bench grinder (with the correct sharpening wheels) thus heating it up?

I'm just curious mostly.. But I do have an idea:D
 
Good question. I have wondered the same when regrinding my salts. I have no idea what the answer is.
 
From what I've heard, it isn't heat treated but work hardened by the grinding. So I don't see you messing it up. I am by no means even close to an expert on the matter I just like to cut things with Spydercos.....
 
Yup, I hear a lot of folks talk about the "work hardening" process, but it's usually a pretty general description of the process. I'm not sure if anyone really knows how it works. Honestly I have suspected for a while now that it might be magic! :eek:
 
Yes. Heat will damage the hardness. H1 is also precipitation hardened. This is a heat treatment and can be damaged by more heat. Info on H1's treatment is fairly vague and I suspect proprietary.
 
Heat from grinding also can undo work hardening, so uncooled grinding of H1 is a doubly bad idea.
 
spydercobenchmadekai said:
Not really. You can just dip it in water every time it gets warm to the touch.
Click to expand...

Ill probably do that. I was just hoping to grind away at it with little worries

A friend of mine tried to give me his pacific salt over the weekend that has a damaged edge from him using the edge to pry in a pinch and I figured I'd try a regrind on it
 
And here I come again. The edge is the most vulnerable part to heat. If you are thinning the primary bevel, say going from 5 degrees down to 3 degrees per side, you should be able to go slow and dip. However, the minute you start talking about the very edge, it becomes nearly impossible to grind with power without over heating the edge. I have an old Delica that is 0.04" thick behind the edge bevel. Were I to thin that out by grinding the primary bevel, I could grind carefully and thin it down to maybe 0.01" behind the edge and be fine. Actually sharpening with a grinder without coolant will over heat the edge. So, carefully thin the edge, and use water dipping to keep the blade from heating up in the first place, and it should work ok. I have read of issues with H1 warping during grinding, so keep that in mind. Spyderco avoids flat grinding because of that. They hollow grind both sides at once instead. However, they are doing large volume in very few passes, like maybe 1 or 2. My plan is to thin my Delica and a couple other knives this weekend. So, to recap, go slow, dip in water before it gets hot, not after, and sharpen the edge by hand. Good luck.
 
Surfingringo said:
Yup, I hear a lot of folks talk about the "work hardening" process, but it's usually a pretty general description of the process. I'm not sure if anyone really knows how it works. Honestly I have suspected for a while now that it might be magic! :eek:
Click to expand...

Just FYI, my research into the issue leads me to believe the H1 stock comes work hardened from the factory before any grinding. The notion of work hardening by grinding is, IMO, mistaken. Sorry, just an issue of mine.
 
Hi Me2,

Partially correct. The rolling process of binging the steel to the thicknesses that we require does in fact work harden the steel. Depending on the thickness required, it will generally be about Rc54+-. Then each grinding process adds to the work hardening process. Dick Barber at Crucible did a series of tests when we first began working with H1. As we, they too had many questions. After micro hardness testing from the edge to the spine, his conclusion was that each grinding process added to the hardness. That would be surface grinding, bevel grinding and sharpening, with the serrated edge bein harder at the edge than the plain edge by 3-5 Rc points. Hardness at the very edge was in many cases in the high 60's. We believe that accounts for the very high CATRA test results on serrated H1.

sal
 
Excellent information. Any new information on the mechanism of how the grinding hardens the steel? I know we talked about this a while back. Are the rumors of warping when flat grinding (ala the Military) still an issue, if they ever were? Does the OP have any worries when trying to repair/regrind his Salt model?
 
me2 said:
Oh, and is there a precipitation/aging treatment? Forgot that part.
Click to expand...

Not that we are aware of. We've processed H1 in Golden for our new Auto with good success. Thre is much mystery about H1. I believe the Japanese like to keep some info secret to preserve their control over the material. With the Chinese counterfeiting most everything we make and others as well, secrecy becomes a defense tool.

sal
 
me2 said:
Excellent information. Any new information on the mechanism of how the grinding hardens the steel? I know we talked about this a while back. Are the rumors of warping when flat grinding (ala the Military) still an issue, if they ever were? Does the OP have any worries when trying to repair/regrind his Salt model?
Click to expand...

We've not found that info on a molecular level. I, too would like to know. It's like the guy who thought a thermos bottle was the smartest thing in the world; "Put in something hot and it stays hot. Put in something cold and it stays cold. How do it know?"

sal
 
Very interesting. So the precipitation hardening discussed when H1 was introduced is either not done by the end user, or not done.
 
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