Can you edcutae me on 4XX steel?

sogflash

sogflash

Joined
Aug 28, 2011
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It's about time I learn the difference between the different 4XX steels like 420j2, 440a, 440b, 440c, 420hc and whatnot. I don't want to limit my choices in knives just because I don't know if the steel is good.

Some people seem to dislike them just because it isn't the newest.

I'm pretty sure any steel can be treated in a way that makes it perform bad. If treated correctly by the maker, which ones are the good, bad and ugly?
 
440 a,b,c differ only in carbon content. IMO, a is worthless , b good for toughness [kukri etc] a makes a good knife but there are improvements. Add Mo and get 154CM ,make it differently and get CPM 154.
The 420, j2, and hc differ also basically in carbon content.
 
Link to Wikipedia article on SAE steel grades, including 400 series stainless:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_steel_grades

The individual steel grades are addressed a little less than halfway down the page.

For the end-user, heat treat makes the real difference. A 400-series stainless, properly heat-treated, will do everything you can reasonably ask of it.

The major difference is in wear-resistance. The third-generation (S30V and so on) stainless steels stay sharper, longer.

But, once they get really dull, you will spend more time sharpening them again.

It really comes down to how often you want to hit the strop or the fine stone, to keep your knife performing at it's best.
 
mete said:
440 a,b,c differ only in carbon content. IMO, a is worthless , b good for toughness [kukri etc] a makes a good knife but there are improvements. Add Mo and get 154CM ,make it differently and get CPM 154.
The 420, j2, and hc differ also basically in carbon content.
Click to expand...

Is this the consensus of the knife community?
 
sogflash said:
Is this the consensus of the knife community?
Click to expand...

Mete knows what he is talking about.

My two cents, you get different steels that fall within the 440 category as well to my knowledge (mete can correct me if I am wrong). 12C27, AEB-L (13c26), 14c28N, that many people look down on, however, these steels at HRC of 60+ perform very differently than steels at HRC of 57 without optimum heat treat. Have a look at the choppers and knives Gavko makes.

I recently spoke to a local maker that had to bring down his hardness on 12C27 from HRC of 62 to 59 through tempering because his customers where complaining about not being able to sharpen it on a stock Lansky System (most popular system in South Africa).

It all comes down to the heat treat. 440B heat treated well is better than S90V, M390 what ever latest and greatest steel with a mediocre heat treat.
 
420 J2 is terrible. 420HC is much better.

I have some decent knives made of 440a. I have heard it is very unforgiving in HT, & must be done just right, whatever that is. But it is possible to be done.
 
440C is a excellent knife steel. It's edge holding abilities are with 154cm. It also has good stainless abilities. Not as easy to sharpen as some others. The chromium carbides resist grinding. DM
 
I use 440a all the time. Its fine for general edc duties. I really have not experienced any poorly heat treated 440a. I think it gets a very bum rap.
 
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