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Canada?
- Thread starter Josh K
- Start date
Canada has very few laws specific to knives. They are covered under the criminal code provisions for weapons.
Switchblades, butterfly knives and any knife that opens by gravity or centrifugal force are prohibited. Other than that, any knife is legal -- it is only the way that you use or carry it that matters.
In summary:
1. a weapon is anything that is designed to be used, that you intend to use, or that actually is used to threaten or harm anyone.
2. you may not carry a weapon, as defined above, for a purpose dangerous to the public peace -- that is, for the purpose of committing an offence or causing a disturbance.
3. you may not carry a concealed weapon, as defined above, period (unless you have a concealed firearms permit).
So: you can carry any knife as long as it is not a weapon (based on design or your intent).
If the knife is a weapon (by the same yardstick) then you may not carry it concealed, and you may only carry it if you have a legitimate reason. Legitimate reasons, however, don't include actually using it as a weapon except in very rare circumstances. Ordinary self-defence does not qualify.
I read a pile of appeals decisions on knife law recently, and the decision usually seems to boil down to the question of whether the knife is a weapon (as defined in the Criminal Code) and whether the accused has a legitimate reason for carrying such a knife.
In general, if you're carrying a knife for any legitimate, non-violent purpose, where a reasonable person would agree that such a knife is useful (i.e. where such knives are common), you'd have no problems. Problems could come up when you carry a knife clearly designed as a weapon (daggers, e.g.) or marketed as such (think Cold Steel). But an ordinary folder should never cause you problems.
Switchblades, butterfly knives and any knife that opens by gravity or centrifugal force are prohibited. Other than that, any knife is legal -- it is only the way that you use or carry it that matters.
In summary:
1. a weapon is anything that is designed to be used, that you intend to use, or that actually is used to threaten or harm anyone.
2. you may not carry a weapon, as defined above, for a purpose dangerous to the public peace -- that is, for the purpose of committing an offence or causing a disturbance.
3. you may not carry a concealed weapon, as defined above, period (unless you have a concealed firearms permit).
So: you can carry any knife as long as it is not a weapon (based on design or your intent).
If the knife is a weapon (by the same yardstick) then you may not carry it concealed, and you may only carry it if you have a legitimate reason. Legitimate reasons, however, don't include actually using it as a weapon except in very rare circumstances. Ordinary self-defence does not qualify.
I read a pile of appeals decisions on knife law recently, and the decision usually seems to boil down to the question of whether the knife is a weapon (as defined in the Criminal Code) and whether the accused has a legitimate reason for carrying such a knife.
In general, if you're carrying a knife for any legitimate, non-violent purpose, where a reasonable person would agree that such a knife is useful (i.e. where such knives are common), you'd have no problems. Problems could come up when you carry a knife clearly designed as a weapon (daggers, e.g.) or marketed as such (think Cold Steel). But an ordinary folder should never cause you problems.
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2002
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- 7,636
Ted Truscott has written a pretty comprehensive book on Canadian knife laws, if I remember correctly.
It's heavily intent based . One thing to avoid is folders that can be readily flipped open , keep pivots tight . Inertial openers can be classed as gravity knives and are prohibited . Push daggers , and knives that incorporate a knuckle guard are prohibitted . There is no specifics on blade length , although it is a lot easier to justify a 3" knife as tool in an urban enviroment , than a Clod Steel Vaquero Grande . Double edged blades are not prohibited , but would be a lot tuffer to justify as a tool . Concealment only applies to weapons ( either by design or demonstrated intent ) and not to tools .
The law is quite flexable , and can be bent to fit most situations . In the great outdoors you have little or nothing to worry about . In a bar where you are making an ass of yourself , you can run into problems .
Unless you have a prohib. device , it's mostly about totality of circumstances . Dont act like a Doofus or a member of the Manson family , and you should be good to go .
Chris
The law is quite flexable , and can be bent to fit most situations . In the great outdoors you have little or nothing to worry about . In a bar where you are making an ass of yourself , you can run into problems .
Unless you have a prohib. device , it's mostly about totality of circumstances . Dont act like a Doofus or a member of the Manson family , and you should be good to go .
Chris
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2006
- Messages
- 475
Balisongs are not prohibited, but a flippable balisong is widely considered a centrifugal opener by the courts. That's why the CS Black Rock Hunter is ok here.
There is little in the way of metal detectors in this country other than airports and some long haul bus routes. Knives are concidered tools. If you are unsure about the knife, just carry it concealed, you are unlikely to get searched if your behavior is normal. If you do get searched, remain calm, and explain that it is a tool you should be okay.
Bufford, I have to say that's not good advice.
Rights re search in Canada are similar to the US. If you are in a situation where you would be searched, i.e. arrest, explaining that the knife is a tool is not going to help much. If it is designed as a weapon, or if you were arrested for violent behaviour, you'll likely be charged with carrying a concealed weapon. Same-same if the knife is inappropriately large -- e.g. six-inch hunting knife on a suburban street.
I can recall two specific cases where the accused argued that a knife was a tool but was convicted, and the conviction was upheld on appeal. One (R. vs. Acoose, I think, if you want to look it up) was a woman carrying a filet knife in her sock. Another was a man carrying a hunting knife and a throwing knife, concealed, in Calgary. Both already had criminal records, which weighed in the decision; more importantly, in both cases the knife was clearly not an appropriate tool for the environment.
If you're unsure about the knife, then likely it will fail the test of reasonability, and then the last thing you want to do is carry concealed -- the standard for conviction on carrying a concealed weapon is lower than carrying a weapon dangerous to the public peace.
But again, like cdf said, if you're behaving reasonably you will have zero problems. You won't get arrested, so you won't get searched. In some ways, e.g. the lack of blade length restrictions, the laws are more relaxed than the US.
Rights re search in Canada are similar to the US. If you are in a situation where you would be searched, i.e. arrest, explaining that the knife is a tool is not going to help much. If it is designed as a weapon, or if you were arrested for violent behaviour, you'll likely be charged with carrying a concealed weapon. Same-same if the knife is inappropriately large -- e.g. six-inch hunting knife on a suburban street.
I can recall two specific cases where the accused argued that a knife was a tool but was convicted, and the conviction was upheld on appeal. One (R. vs. Acoose, I think, if you want to look it up) was a woman carrying a filet knife in her sock. Another was a man carrying a hunting knife and a throwing knife, concealed, in Calgary. Both already had criminal records, which weighed in the decision; more importantly, in both cases the knife was clearly not an appropriate tool for the environment.
If you're unsure about the knife, then likely it will fail the test of reasonability, and then the last thing you want to do is carry concealed -- the standard for conviction on carrying a concealed weapon is lower than carrying a weapon dangerous to the public peace.
But again, like cdf said, if you're behaving reasonably you will have zero problems. You won't get arrested, so you won't get searched. In some ways, e.g. the lack of blade length restrictions, the laws are more relaxed than the US.
It comes down to totality of circumstances , who you are and how credible your rationale for having the tool with you . I guess the test boils down to reasonability .
A lot also depends on how the tool came to the officer's attention . Absent some form of provocation , Canadian cops are pretty cool . Just dont tell a downtown Toronto officer that the boot knife in your waistband is for fishing . As a general rule officers don't like to have their intelligence insulted . The law is very flexable , if wrongdoing can be inferred , expect it to be used against you .
Chris
A lot also depends on how the tool came to the officer's attention . Absent some form of provocation , Canadian cops are pretty cool . Just dont tell a downtown Toronto officer that the boot knife in your waistband is for fishing . As a general rule officers don't like to have their intelligence insulted . The law is very flexable , if wrongdoing can be inferred , expect it to be used against you .
Chris
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2001
- Messages
- 601
I kind of like the lack of blade length in this case.
For example I have an Italian slipjoint "fruit knife" that has a 5" blade. Long yes, but it's visually obvious that it's meant as an eating utensil, since the thin blade is shaped like a butter knife and there is a fork the folds out. Though I'd only carry it if I was picnicking.
As long as I can keep my Gerber Diesel handy most places, I'm good. It's all I ever need.
For example I have an Italian slipjoint "fruit knife" that has a 5" blade. Long yes, but it's visually obvious that it's meant as an eating utensil, since the thin blade is shaped like a butter knife and there is a fork the folds out. Though I'd only carry it if I was picnicking.
As long as I can keep my Gerber Diesel handy most places, I'm good. It's all I ever need.
The info in that link isn't precisely correct. It's not Bill C-68 that counts, it's the Criminal Code of Canada.
Possession of weapon for dangerous purpose
88. (1) Every person commits an offence who carries or possesses a weapon, an imitation of a weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition for a purpose dangerous to the public peace or for the purpose of committing an offence.
Carrying weapon while attending public meeting
89. (1) Every person commits an offence who, without lawful excuse, carries a weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition while the person is attending or is on the way to attend a public meeting.
Carrying concealed weapon
90. (1) Every person commits an offence who carries a weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition concealed, unless the person is authorized under the Firearms Act to carry it concealed.
Note that all of these depend on the definition of a weapon, which is:
"weapon" means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use
(a) in causing death or injury to any person, or
(b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person
So an SAK is not technically a concealed weapon, as the link suggests. It only becomes a weapon if you use it as such, or demonstrate intent to do so.
Any "informal blade length rules" have no legal force. A Canadian cop is not going to charge you just because you have a 3-1/4 inch blade where his boss says the rule is 3 inches, because unless he can show intent, he won't get a conviction.
Possession of weapon for dangerous purpose
88. (1) Every person commits an offence who carries or possesses a weapon, an imitation of a weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition for a purpose dangerous to the public peace or for the purpose of committing an offence.
Carrying weapon while attending public meeting
89. (1) Every person commits an offence who, without lawful excuse, carries a weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition while the person is attending or is on the way to attend a public meeting.
Carrying concealed weapon
90. (1) Every person commits an offence who carries a weapon, a prohibited device or any prohibited ammunition concealed, unless the person is authorized under the Firearms Act to carry it concealed.
Note that all of these depend on the definition of a weapon, which is:
"weapon" means any thing used, designed to be used or intended for use
(a) in causing death or injury to any person, or
(b) for the purpose of threatening or intimidating any person
So an SAK is not technically a concealed weapon, as the link suggests. It only becomes a weapon if you use it as such, or demonstrate intent to do so.
Any "informal blade length rules" have no legal force. A Canadian cop is not going to charge you just because you have a 3-1/4 inch blade where his boss says the rule is 3 inches, because unless he can show intent, he won't get a conviction.
If you read my post, I mentioned 'normal behavior' not violent behavior. Certainly violent behavior, or any other negative activity will get a person in trouble for any kind of knife designed as a weapon or not. It does not have to be a knife either, a hammer, screwdriver or similar will get the person in question in hot water with the authorities.
I am not sure if things have changed in Canada, but about 15 years ago, I went fishing in Nova Scotia. Got the proper permits and all. I carried a 7" Rapala fillet knife on my belt and a Shrade "Sharp Finger" fixed-blade knife as well. The Provincial Police constables who were on patrol in the area stopped by to have a chat with me. They checked my license, eyed both knives on my belt and asked me where I was from (the Boston accent definitely gave me away!). One of the constables happened to have family living in the Boston area and we chatted a bit. Both constables then wished me well and good luck fishing, then drove away. Nice guys! I just wish that all police officers were like that.
Concealment only becomes relevant if it's a weapon . Does not apply to tools . Neck carry might be seen as a bit unusual , and might therefore incite questions . Lots of people carry with pocket clips . Remember , think tool ! My gut level advice would be to stay away from your neck rig . Do not ever say self defence , unless you are forced to press some otherwise innocent tool into service as a weapon of opportunity to save your bacon .
Personally , I rarely use a pocket clip . Advertising generally doesn't pay .
Just as a sweeping generalization , a Delica would probably arouse a bit less interest than your Millie , tho neither of them is illeagal . ( assuming you have reasonably tight pivots ) .
Rural and wilderness areas are very relaxed , large urban centers may be less so . Multi's and SAK's incite little or no interest .
Remember , concealment implies a weapon ,either by design or malicous intent . Absent intent , a pocket knife in a pocket does not fill the bill . The same pocketknife could be seen differently if it was taped to your ankle , and you were in a lineup for an afterhours club in downtown Toronto .
Chris
Personally , I rarely use a pocket clip . Advertising generally doesn't pay .
Just as a sweeping generalization , a Delica would probably arouse a bit less interest than your Millie , tho neither of them is illeagal . ( assuming you have reasonably tight pivots ) .
Rural and wilderness areas are very relaxed , large urban centers may be less so . Multi's and SAK's incite little or no interest .
Remember , concealment implies a weapon ,either by design or malicous intent . Absent intent , a pocket knife in a pocket does not fill the bill . The same pocketknife could be seen differently if it was taped to your ankle , and you were in a lineup for an afterhours club in downtown Toronto .
Chris
- Joined
- Sep 29, 2008
- Messages
- 10,394
I use the neck carry when either I know I'm going to be using it a lot, or if I'm wearing lots of bulky clothing and I know it's going to be hard to get to in pocket.
I'm not "advertising" the knife as much as I am carrying it for my own convenience. My best SD weapon is the six minute mile I run.
Knives are tools, I get that.
I'm probably going to go with a small (2") necker and the military in pocket. Maybe the para if we go into town.
I'm not "advertising" the knife as much as I am carrying it for my own convenience. My best SD weapon is the six minute mile I run.
Knives are tools, I get that.I'm probably going to go with a small (2") necker and the military in pocket. Maybe the para if we go into town.
I have had great success with neck carry knives (Becker BK11).....its all in the detail.....there is a firesteel and striker, a whistle, and a fenix P1D-CE on the neck lanyard.
I get more questions by LEO's about the P1D and the firesteel than the knife.
I get more questions by LEO's about the P1D and the firesteel than the knife.