canadian customs nazis (some help would be cool)

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mael333ca

Joined
Jul 5, 2012
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So I tried to import into Canada a ZT 0808...Customs seized it...pretending it is a automatic knife....because when the agent pressed on the flipper...the blade opened 'automatically''...then the agent went on saying torsion bars were prohibited...because she said the frame lock bar was a torsion bar....then she went as far as saying that any knife that can be opened one handed is prohibited in Canada....

you can bet that I placed an appeal, that was received and opened...

this was my complaint to open an appeal:

''I imported a small Pocket knife from a particular in the USA. it is widely available here in Canada, like at warriors and wonders, SRKnives or even amazon.ca, yes THE EXACT SAME MODEL( ZT 0808). I imported it because I got a good deal that saved me about 40$ in regards to prices here in Canada.



It is a MANUAL opening flipper. Meaning, the base of the blade tang itself is used to manually open the blade, by physically applying force to it, as to bring it out into locked position. The agents pretended it is an automatic opening knife. In their point of view, because the blade opens as they manually forced it so... By this…they conclude it is an automatic knife based on the smoothness and lack of friction of the pivot, because it rest on ball bearings. Furthermore, the said agent did not know how to make the difference between the frame lock bar (to keep the knife in opened position) and a torsion bar (assisted opening)...



This confusion is largely due to the lack of knowledge and understanding, on a specific technical basis and legal stand point, of your agents. These people, if they are to seize items from Canadians, should have the qualifications to understand the mechanical nature of the prohibited knives in Canada vs those who do not fall under the control of the Canadian criminal code. This Pocket knife has no opening devices attached to the handle nor the blade, it has no torsion bar nor spring, it also does not open by the force of gravity.



I have read the federal decision AP-2012-72 concerning brass knuckle knives and stiletto knives also known as switch blades or gravity knives. That decision does not concern the category of knives like the one you have withheld from me.



Nonobstant your internal policies, outside of the Canadian criminal code, I have been victim of a wrongfully applied procedure and my rights have been mistreated by your service.''

I will have to opportunity to present the manufacturer's technical specs and details from retailers that can obviously import the knife without any issues been obviously a legal knife to own in Canada...

Guys, if you have any info, or advice for me, I would greatly appreciate.
 
i have none, because that was so well written i dont see how they can deny your claim. nice job.
 
These agents are really making an effort lately to enforce an opinion that is not supported by the law, unelected bureaucrats looking to invent more work and steal from citizens. I like your response in your appeal, please let us know how it goes for you, unfortunately this will likely have to be rectified by political pressure or through legal means before it will stop.
 
I wish you the best of luck my fellow Canadian. That really hurts. I don't really have anything to add, it appears you are doing a fine job.
 
thanks guy, but I will end up having it sent back to the shop I purchased it from and they will send it back in pieces marked as repair parts. problem solved right there I think. But these people need to be put back to their places... They can't cite administrative decisions to over rule the criminal code and so justify their seizures...They are braking the law and overreaching their authority...this impunity cannot go on, our future is at stake when government officials act in a dictatorial fashion...

*Don't tread on me*
 
First of all if you go to court without a lawyer...You're pretty much screwed. Canada has a bit of a Kangaroo court system, and no matter how logically you argue your case. They will side with the so called highly trained super police expert over you, a nobody citizen. Go to your local (Lawyer) collage and see if a Law Student would be willing to accept your case. Many of them will for free, just to gain some experience.

That and you will need to find other court rulings, that has defined what your knife is and how it's not prohibited. I would also ask them to define "Centrifugal Force". As to me the use of "Centrifugal force" was originally used to include "Butterfly" style knives as people found the spinning opening action of them to be intimidating. Centrifugal basically means a "Spinning Force" not "It's too easy to open force"
I would also point out that, to open your knife you need to make physical contact with the blade. Where as Auto's, Gravity Knives, Butterfly's you don't. Id also point out with their loose interpretations, that every utility knife in Canada would be a prohibited Weapon.. As you push a button on the handle to open it, and you can use gravity to open the blade.


You should also bring a expert witness along. To define any science terms. Or maybe a knife shop owner etc. You need someone that has nothing to gain or profit for speaking on your behalf.
 
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A lawyer is of help, but with small claims court handling cases less than $25,000 you are better off representing yourself. Judges will hear your case and in many cases will side with the person without a lawyer because judges themselves are lawyers. Write everything down in advance, all your evidence including what happened at customs, and that your same knife you tried to import is also available in Canadian retailers. Taking the case to court helps tie up the customs agent's staff time, if enough people would take these overzealous customs agents to court they may think twice before hassling people for something as petty as this.
 
Bufford said:
A lawyer is of help, but with small claims court handling cases less than $25,000 you are better off representing yourself. Judges will hear your case and in many cases will side with the person without a lawyer because judges themselves are lawyers. Write everything down in advance, all your evidence including what happened at customs, and that your same knife you tried to import is also available in Canadian retailers. Taking the case to court helps tie up the customs agent's staff time, if enough people would take these overzealous customs agents to court they may think twice before hassling people for something as petty as this.
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Just my worthless 2¢, but most of the customs/LEOs/etc still get paid whether they are in court testifying or out "on the job" so they don't really care much. I know 1 deputy who likes to go to court because, as he says "I get paid to sit on my butt in the air conditioning all day just like the Chief Deputy does."
 
Bufford said:
A lawyer is of help, but with small claims court handling cases less than $25,000 you are better off representing yourself. Judges will hear your case and in many cases will side with the person without a lawyer because judges themselves are lawyers. Write everything down in advance, all your evidence including what happened at customs, and that your same knife you tried to import is also available in Canadian retailers. Taking the case to court helps tie up the customs agent's staff time, if enough people would take these overzealous customs agents to court they may think twice before hassling people for something as petty as this.
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hi,

I had the knife sent back with fedex, who are now causing me the same kind of trouble..., but because of all the hassle, I think I will send the government's responsible minister a legal notice, a claim, for customs having violated my right(1982 constitution article 6) to be protected from abusive seizure by the federal or provincial governments. Small claims court here have a limit of 5000$ I believe and cost about 80$ to file a case.

basically the thing is, they simply had no legal basis to seize the knife and that is an ''Abusive'' seizure no doubt, it is arbitrary. Their federal decision they site is not a court decision, although they seam to present it as such, it is an internal administrative panel of the Canadian customs that hears these appeals. This is what dictatorship is made of my friends. This cannot be abided.
 
Take it to the court and speak your mind about it, if we don't fight back the system will continue to abuse its citizens. Only by speaking up can changes take place. I would also write your local MP and to your ombudsman. This kind of action by our customs agents should not be taken lightly and simply be accepted in silence.
 
mael333ca said:
hi,

I had the knife sent back with fedex, who are now causing me the same kind of trouble..., but because of all the hassle, I think I will send the government's responsible minister a legal notice, a claim, for customs having violated my right(1982 constitution article 6) to be protected from abusive seizure by the federal or provincial governments. Small claims court here have a limit of 5000$ I believe and cost about 80$ to file a case.

basically the thing is, they simply had no legal basis to seize the knife and that is an ''Abusive'' seizure no doubt, it is arbitrary. Their federal decision they site is not a court decision, although they seam to present it as such, it is an internal administrative panel of the Canadian customs that hears these appeals. This is what dictatorship is made of my friends. This cannot be abided.
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I had the same thing happen recently with a high value custom flipper. I chose to import back to the states as I heard that appeals normally fall on deaf ears. They'll say sure, the same one is sold in Canada, but this particular one is somehow different and "illegal". It's completely subjective what they'll seize and what they won't. Depends on what border agent happens to open your pkg and how they try to open the knife.

Overall, it's pretty ridiculous. Torsion bars are even specifically mentioned as ok in some ruling a long time ago when they came into question with Kershaw. Lack of knowledge is definitely a problem though. Unless it was something glaringly obvious, if a 'knife guy' CBSA agent opened it up he'd probably just add it to his "must buy" list and send your pkg on your way. They really do seem to be getting uptight about flippers these days but... we'll see I guess.
 
Hey man
I really feel for you this has become a major problem lately and there is little the average citizen can do. I will say I have recently gone through the same problem I used UPS to send the knife as the Fed Ex rep I talked to didn't seem to know what she was doing. It did cost more but I thought it was worth it. I recently made a video about this and a few people commented that they had stuff taken as well. This situation is really bad and totally unjust. This is one of those areas of Law that must be looked at but getting that to happen is nearly impossible I have spoken a few times with my MPP and plan to keep bothering him about it. On a brighter note I did find the CBSA agents that I had to deal with quite helpful.
 
Canadian customs nazi's they are not, they are people trying to do a job with a lot of responsibility, and I am not sure how well they are paid. At one point in my life before I retired I drove over the road 18 wheelers a couple of years.

I recall on several occasions having loads that cross the border with Canada, and having to enter that country.

First thing they did at the border was run my license/id for moving violations, dui's, hard misdemeanors convictions, and felony convictions. All would have not allowed me to enter & deliver in Canada.

Then it was a search of my tractor as they were looking for unopened packages of cigarettes. Believe you were allowed one open & one close packed of cigarettes in you tractor.

I had already told them I do not smoke, my tractor did not smell of cigarette smoke, but they searched just the same. Apparently smoke back then were about 12 buck a pack in Canada.

All this too time off my log book as it was considered, on duty, not driving. So it cost me money.

So I am sorry for you loss of knife, sorry your cost saving of $40,00 cost you a knife, but when they searched my truck the two times I went to Canada they trashed my office, the place I lived on the road, dumping out my personal belonging, shaving kit, dirty laundry bad, unmade my bed, because they could and were searching for cigarettes truckers took into Canada and made a 5-7 dollar a pack profit of of when they sold them up in Canada.

After the last trip to Canada with a roll of steel wire, I told my dispatcher if they ever gave me another load into Canada I would park my truck, and hitch hike or ride the dog (greyhound bus) home .
 
I have never had a problem. CBSA held a ZT350TS for about 3 days before releasing it. That's about the only issue I've had.
 
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