Canadian Customs - please read

Hello

I have sent a liner lock folder to a customer in Canada by the end of next month and he did not got it. Now he found out that the folder had been seized by customs and it had been banned - supposedly to be destroyed - because it can be flicked open!
Does anyone has experienced similar problems or knows how to overcome this in the orders I should send to that country?
Any help will be apreciated.


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Ivan Campos
Full-time knifemaker...finally!


http://www.bitweb.com.br/users/campos

Visit Cutelaria Hoje - The first Brazilian virtual knife magazine
(English/Portuguese)
http://www.cutelariahoje.com.br
 
Mike Hull

Mike Hull

Joined
Nov 25, 2000
Messages
5,548
Ivan,I was told by a ups representative,a year ago that they would not take anything that could even remotely be considered a weapon, to Canada,including knives.Could be just the local rep is an idiot,but the Postal service told me the same thing."Globalization",aint it wonderful.

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MIKE
 
Hello, Mike

Here is the folder in question (the one seized is the one that has G-10 scales) and, as you can see, it in no more weaponlike than any other.

View


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Ivan Campos
Full-time knifemaker...finally!


http://www.bitweb.com.br/users/campos

Visit Cutelaria Hoje - The first Brazilian virtual knife magazine
(English/Portuguese)
http://www.cutelariahoje.com.br

[This message has been edited by Ivan Campos (edited 06-15-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ivan Campos (edited 06-15-2001).]
 
I just recently sold a custom knife to a fellow forumite who is in Canada. I took it to the loal USPS office, and the lady looked through her international shipping book, which showed no direct mention of knives. The wording was "Guns or other weapons" Pretty broad definition! She told me that if it was rejected, it would probably be sent back to me. If not, I got it insured and was assured I'd be compensated. Very strange laws eh?
 
Here's my last experience shipping to Canada.
On 2/25/01 I sent a RJ Handiman to a fellow in Quebec, it never arrived. The fellow was more than patient and said let's see if it turns up. On 5/15/01 the package was returned to me, marked RTS-USA, in bold black
crayon. I knew it wasn't refused. Approx. 80
days in postal limbo.

Happy ending - reshipped USPS Express mail, recieved in 5 days.

I will no longer ship to Canada.

Win
 
Ivan,

Your knife was seized because it is considered a gravity knife. Meaning the customs agent could flick the knife open without using the thumb stud.

It is best to do the following:

List the knife as a "hand tool" which technically it is.

If it is a folder, tighten the pivot pin to the point where it is almost impossible to open.

If you give Canadian Customs a reason to seize the knife, they will.

I have shipped dozens of knives to Canada with no problem.



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Les Robertson
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
 
Les is correct, Canadian law expressly forbids gravity opening knives and this includes balisongs. Also prohibited are switchblades(automatics) and push daggers.

Prohibited weapons are siezed and destroyed, not returned to sender.

Once the inspector makes the determination that they have an illegal weapon destruction is automatic so the shipper should take the precautions that Les outlines. Another thing that is against you is your country of origin, packages from all South American countries are routinely opened for inspection because of the fear of drug smuggling. If you could arrange to have the parcel reshipped from another country it might go better.

Sorry about your loss, next time things should go better.

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george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com


 
Hey Guys....

I Agree with Les....

Tighten the pivot enough that it can't be flicked open..
Even if this means supplying an Allen key/Torx with the knife so the customer can adjust it when it is recieved...

The only thing I would respectfully disagree with Les on is the term "Hand Tool"

I went the Go-Round with Canada Customs on the term "Hand Tool" and was told by Toronto Customs Postal Inspection that the term "Hand Tool" was acceptable to them.

However I also went the Go-Round with Ottawa on the same term and was told in No Uncertain terms that if it comes across this one particular persons desk, and most of these cases do, it will be siezed, Plain and Simple.

Ottawa wants the box labled "Knife", Toronto will accept "Hand Tool"

Since Ottawa has the final say on these matters I've changed my policy on labeling.

Ivan...

There is an Avenue to possible recovery of your knife.. It is a long road, but it possibly can be done.

Shoot me an e-mail and I'll explain it to you...

Good luck with it...

ttyle

Eric...

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On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
 
Well that really sucks Ivan. I have never had a problem with any of the folders that I have received through the mail. They have been shipped to me as knives and as hand tools and all have gotten to me. I do think making sure that the pivot is real tight is a great idea and will request that that be done with all my future purchases. Thanks alot Les, for the recommendation.

I sure hope that this is an isolated case and will not become the norm. It would be a real shame if it becomes more difficult for Canadians to get knives through customs. If this were to happen, it would probably result in makers refusing to ship to Canada and I would hate that.

I sure hope that you can get the knife in question back. You are really one of the good people in this industry and you do not deserve this.

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Keith

AKTI Member #A001338
 
If the word "knife" is included, I usually make sure to have "utility", "hunting", "kitchen" or "camp" in front of it.

How about using "cutlery" in the description?

Steve
 
Making only fixed blades, how would Canadian policy affect my shipping? Is there anything I need to lookout for?

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R.W.Clark

Proud Member : California Knifemakers Association
 
Hey RW...

Nothing really out of the ordinary...

Just be sure you fill out the slip correctly, so that it can't be taken another way...

The people I have dealt with at Customs have been Very freindly, Professional, and I do not believe they do these things to be a pain in the ass. If it's done,, there is probably a reason for it..

As far as flicking a knife open...
That's pretty much open to interpretation.

We all know that 99.9% of folders can be flicked open with a varying degree of difficaulty.

ttyle

Eric...

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On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing
 
Thank you all for your support and input. I really should have been more careful and checked that before but, quite frankly, I aways though of Canada Customs just like the US Customs, not so strict as they seem to be. After nine years in business without a single similar problem, maybe one tends to become a bit less careful.
I'll probably have a conclusion to this case by next week and will let you all know.

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Ivan Campos
Full-time knifemaker...finally!


http://www.bitweb.com.br/users/campos

Visit Cutelaria Hoje - The first Brazilian virtual knife magazine
(English/Portuguese)
http://www.cutelariahoje.com.br
 
I use "hand tool" on every knife I ship to a foreign country.

Using the word knife or cutlery with some customs people is like baiting a rotweiler with a big steak, they just can't help themselves.

Also, Canada must have some very hefty taxes on their postal system. As I can send the same package to anywhere in Asia and it is cheaper than sending it to Canada.

The most expensive and equally restrictive is England.

As for seizing the knife because you use hand tool inlieu of knife. That one may get seized, but it also has to be returned. A knife can not be sized and kept merely on the verbage used to describe the product.

But it is still a pain to have to deal with it.

Eric, you and the Guild need to look into the Provential law as it pertains to each. It would appear from what you say that each provience can add additional restrictions to the federal law.



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Les Robertson
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
 
Some of the customs non-sense is just plain random luck. Why did you package get picked (sloppy hand writing, suspicious country of origin)? If you package got picked, how hard did the inspector look at it?

While I haven't had a problem shipping fixed blades, folders seem like a random luck of the draw. Tightening them to the point they are like a fixed blade is certainly one way to get past the "gravity" knife trend that seems to have become a part of so many postal systems.

Also, you are required to fill out the custom's declaration accurately so, be careful about being too creative when describing the contents. Camping tools pushes the envelope as far as I will take it. Most postal systems seem to accept Kitchen cutlery, camping knife, etc. The key here seems to be presenting the article in a non-threatening way. Knife vs. Kitchen Cutlery vs. Hunting Knife vs. Camping Tool all will bring different thoughts and images to the mind of the postal inspector. I guess we need to be amateur psycologists to increase our success rates at shipping across international borders.....

Stay Sharp,
Sid
 
I am a supporter of the word Cutlery because calling anything a knife is an invitation to light fingered individuals.

I have found a way around the Goods and Services Tax on knives coming back for service by having the shipper label the knife "Canadian Goods Returned for Repair" otherwise I would have to pay the GST and wait 3 months to claim it back on the quarterly return. Having anything shipped directly to my business using the business name prevents problems with the provincial sales tax.

Unfortunately the mail is unpredictable re delivery times, I have had shipments arrive in 5 days and others from the same source take 29 days.

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george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com


 
Canada Customs and Canada Post are both federal government agencies. I do not think that provincial governments get involved in shipments at all. I do think that it depends on the individual customs inspector though.

I have had packages inspected and have never had a knife seized. Maybe just good luck.

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Keith

AKTI Member #A001338
 
Man this is dumb! When and how are the citizens of free countries gonna be able to turn back this tide of b.s. knife and gun laws? It's gettin to the point where we'll have to send our customers disassembled knives and mark them as craft kits or puzzles.

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Take care!! Michael
jesus.jpg


Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!

Cooper Custom Knives
Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms!!!
 
Border control, customs, immigration, GST and the mails are federal jurisdiction. But PST is provincial as well as the enforcement of federal criminal law violations [unless the RCMP or CSIS have a stake]. That's why there is "Cooperative Federalism" up here. In short, it's mostly federal unless for some reason the police get involved for a suspected violation of the Criminal Code.
There is a formal appeal mechanism to get goods seized by customs or the police released. A while back I posted a long post about the legal and procedural aspects of this. It was probably even less fun to read than it was to write.
There really should be no problem with fixed blades. Apparently there is a bit of a crackdown now on "gravity knives", as grey as that area of the law and discretion is.
The easiest course to follow to be discreet on how the package is labelled so you don't have to deal with some overzealous border muffin and do tighten it up as best you can and ship with a torx or allen or whatever. Nothing is foolproof, and up here we have no shortage of fools, but so far I haven't had a problem. As has been pointed out by some learned forum members, the federal and provincial !#@$*&^!! taxes both are really brutal and prohibitive, especially since the tax gestapo calculates PST and GST after converting to Canadian dollars. I think they use the Peso exchange rate.
I would never suggest anyone not complete a form honestly. But I do have a surprising number of knives out of the country for repair, custom work, sheath making and, especially, sharpening.
[one day I will learn how to type and won't have to edit]



[This message has been edited by HJK (edited 06-17-2001).]
 
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