Canister questions

J

Jason Fry

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Jun 5, 2008
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I've been reading a bit on canister and have a few questions.

I have some wrought iron or mild steel historical nails that I'd like to put in a can with some powder. Goal will be to make a solid billet with the nails that I can put into the stack with 1084/15n20, then push to a high layer count to get the carbon diffusion I'd need to overcome the nails in the mix.

Next, I've read varying reports on how clean the stuff has to be inside the can. I've got typical rusty/crusty nails. Should I grind them down to clean metal bits, or would a wire wheel be sufficient?

Given that pattern distortion isn't relevant in this case, is there any reason I couldn't just do a rectangular can with 1084 on the long sides and mild on the short sides? That way I'd just weld the whole thing solid, grind off the edges, then go forward? I'm thinking the "can" could be 2" wide 1084 with maybe 1" or 3/4" sides?

Along the same lines, if I welded together a carbon steel can, then ground off the MIG welds after the billet was solid, that should work, correct?
 
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i am not a damascus guy, but i am thinking clean would be the way to go. maybe you could soak them in vinegar or other solution to remove the rust instead of grinding them.
 
I talked with a couple of more experienced smiths, they also suggested vinegar then wire brush on the nails. Regarding the carbon steel can, it was pointed out that canister requires quite a few more welding heats than a similar billet of laminate, so there's more risk of decarb/damage to a carbon can than with a regular weld. Going to stick with mild.
 
Jason, something I've been wondering about with your wrought iron nails. That pattern would be neat in a blade. What would happen if you made a canister perhaps 1/2" deep, 1" to 1-1/2" wide, and 4" or 5" long and open on top. Place nails in canister along one side filling the "top" (to be spine of blade) with nails, then filled rest of canister with 1084 powder. Place top on canister and weld good, pop in forge for heating.

The idea would be after welding and drawing out to blade shape to have a blade with the wrought iron nail pattern along spine half of blade with good 1084 steel for cutting edge.

Understand, I now zero experience with canister and very little with forge welding in general. Just tossing out ideas here.
 
Interesting idea, Ken. I've thought about using part of the powder/nails billet and forge welding it on top of a bar of 1084. Would be essentially the same result as you proposed.
 
I also have zero expirience, but could you place a bar of c-steel in the middle of the can and fill each side with nails/powder to achieve kind of San-Mai?
 
That is an interesting idea. "IF" the wrought iron nails could be kept up in the upper half of blade and only 1084 powder in lower portion that should be about the same thing function wise, but would show nail pattern only in upper half of finished blade. With a high carbon bar in middle with powder and nails on both sides, it should be like San Mai allowing the wrought iron nails to show pattern on full side of blade, except for cutting edge.

I'd be interested in hearing comments from other folks about feasibility of this idea.
 
And if my idea works, please make sure to send me a bar forged out to make a 24cm gyuto ;)
 
I think I read where a chap used 1/4" W2 to make a 2"X1"X6"canister and filled it with ball bearings and powder. Ater welding it solid he split it down the center, ground the W2 clean, and flipped the sides so the W2 was in the center. After re-welding and drawing out he had a cool looking san-mai billet with W2 core.

Your wrought iron nail build should work the same way.
 
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