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Can't figure out why S90v Millies and Manix XL's are so far apart in price.

GatorFlash1

GatorFlash1

Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
3,189
The carbon fiber S90v Military model (and PM model) is priced like a CRK "Sebenza", the carbon fiber S90v Manix XL (about same size as the MIllie) is about half the cost. Why is this this? Is the Millie that much rarer than the Mannie XL? Or is the Mannie just a great deal and nobody realizes it yet. I have both and really can't say one is my absolute favorite, or better than the other. Both fine knives.

Here are a couple of Youtube videos I found about both these knives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6iKNni2btQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coqgPLFrTBY

Thoughts?
 
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People haven't been able to artificially inflate the price, hence them staying around retail.

They also weren't sold at any bargain like previous sprints so it limited flippers from picking them all up trying to flip them
 
My guess is Manix 2 XL is just as popular a design/size combination, the pre-order pricing of under $220 was a pretty good deal but they are still pretty easy to find under $250 with patience. There's also how many they made and how long they've been out there on the market, 800 for the Manix 2 XL in Dec 2013 vs 200 for the millie in 2008. Compare that to trying to find a Manix 2 non-XL S90V/CF, or the PM2 S90V/CF and the XL is a steal. In time prices for them might climb.

I love the ergonomics of the XL but it's just too big/heavy in the pocket and I don't feel you gain much over it's smaller brother in blade size. I also felt the CF slabs were not as rounded at the edges as the G10 counterparts and it made them feel less comfortable in the hand. If you are patient you can still find the XL CF/S90 near pre-order pricing and really I think they are a good deal at that price, you get S90V, CF that actually provides some grip with the peel-ply, and if I remember right skeletonized liners.

Hard to say if over time prices for them will climb significantly though.
 
The s90v military was made many years before the new manix xl. Spyderco made a few versions of the cf handled military then, one in s90v(which was a fairly recent addition to the knife steel world), one in regular s30v and one other super steel that I don't quite remember right now. They were very few in number and most have been stowed in safes since then, so when they pop up they command a premium. I remember when they were just a year or two old people still wanted top dollar for a very desirable piece.
 
Thanks for the info. It will be interesting to see how this pricing variance shakes out over time. I didn't realize there were fewer Millies made than Mannies.

I like the larger knives because of the bigger handle. The extra 1/2" blade seems to make cutting a little faster for me.

All great knives, I would be happy with any of them.
 
GatorFlash1 said:
The carbon fiber S90v Military model (and PM model) is priced like a CRK "Sebenza", the carbon fiber S90v Manix XL (about same size as the MIllie) is about half the cost. Why is this this? Is the Millie that much rarer than the Mannie XL? Or is the Mannie just a great deal and nobody realizes it yet. I have both and really can't say one is my absolute favorite, or better than the other. Both fine knives.

Here are a couple of Youtube videos I found about both these knives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6iKNni2btQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coqgPLFrTBY

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Mostly because the S90V Military is a sprint that was discontinued something like 5-7 years ago and still enjoys substantial collector and user interest. Whether the Manix 2 XL ever attains those prices is an open question. The relatively rare Manix 2 S90V sprint might be a reasonable predictor of that - you could research prices for that one here and on the auction site (make sure you look at sold knives, not just asking prices on knives that didn't sell).
 
Supply and demand. Any time you have questions like this, simply place "supply and demand" into the answer column.
 
With all my love to Manix XL, I believe it is not even close in popularity to Military.
 
I find the Military a little more comfortable in the hand, but the Manix2XL is a great work knife with the steel liners and ball lock. I picked up two of the S90V XL's and they're not for flipping.
 
I have large hands and like them both for hand comfort. I think the m2xl has the better of the blade tip styles and can't imagine cutting anything that would ever break the tip off, especially with s90v steel.

Is one type of action more popular than the other in your opinion?
 
Because of increased cost and profit margin.

Although Sal has said many time that their profit margin hasn't increased much. However, keep in mind that when speaking of a margin, you're speaking of a %, which fluctuates with dollar amount. A 30% margin on a $50 knife is not the same as a 30% margin on a $300 knife. Therefore, as vendors, raw material, labor, overhead increases in price, the profit dollar amount also increases even though the profit margin % stays the same.

My opinion is that Spyderco's profit margin has indeed increased over the years in proportion to increase in cost. Although Sal's statement is technically true, but I don't believe it reflect the calculation I just presented.
 
The military is much more popular and there is a lot of demand among collectors now. I was surprised that the Manix XL didn't sell out faster, and in coming years their prices might eventually go up.
 
Neomentat said:
Because of increased cost and profit margin.

Although Sal has said many time that their profit margin hasn't increased much. However, keep in mind that when speaking of a margin, you're speaking of a %, which fluctuates with dollar amount. A 30% margin on a $50 knife is not the same as a 30% margin on a $300 knife. Therefore, as vendors, raw material, labor, overhead increases in price, the profit dollar amount also increases even though the profit margin % stays the same.

My opinion is that Spyderco's profit margin has indeed increased over the years in proportion to increase in cost. Although Sal's statement is technically true, but I don't believe it reflect the calculation I just presented.
Click to expand...

Profit margin= (sales-cogs)/sales

A 30% doesn't fluctuate with dollars bc sales price increases with increased cogs to maintain that %. A 30% margin on $50 knife can also be that for $300 knife bc it assumes sales prices increase as the result of cogs to maintain that margin. Of course all this assumes he maintains the same profit margin across all lines.

I think what you meant to say is his total sales have increased(not profit margin) with higher priced knives. :)
 
cjb1911 said:
Profit margin= (sales-cogs)/sales

A 30% doesn't fluctuate with dollars bc sales price increases with increased cogs to maintain that %. A 30% margin on $50 knife can also be that for $300 knife bc it assumes sales prices increase as the result of cogs to maintain that margin. Of course all this assumes he maintains the same profit margin across all lines.

I think what you meant to say is his total sales have increased(not profit margin) with higher priced knives. :)
Click to expand...

Good point, what I meant is that he's making more money on higher priced knives :)
 
GatorFlash1 said:
The carbon fiber S90v Military model (and PM model) is priced like a CRK "Sebenza", the carbon fiber S90v Manix XL (about same size as the MIllie) is about half the cost. Why is this this? Is the Millie that much rarer than the Mannie XL? Or is the Mannie just a great deal and nobody realizes it yet. I have both and really can't say one is my absolute favorite, or better than the other. Both fine knives.

Here are a couple of Youtube videos I found about both these knives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6iKNni2btQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coqgPLFrTBY

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Just my guess:

The older CF S90V Military is one of the first knives released in S90V to gain one of the insane iconic followings, which is why you will hardly ever find them for sale new or used. They can be found, but very, very rarely will you find a new one. The fact that this is considered one of the original "Founding Father" type pieces increases the desirability and price. This despite there being a CPM-D2 or BG-42 predecessor. Coincidentally, the rerelease of S90V on the military in blue G10 did allow more people to own a knife in that platform though not in CF. I've also seen the BG-42 model go for around $350-$400 in listings, whether it sold or not I don't know as I already own one.

Fast forward about 5-6 years and consider all the knives that have come along since then with super steels, new lock configurations, new 3D machining, collaborations, etc. There is much more competition in the marketplace than there was 6 years ago. Even Chinese manufacturers of what they claim to be original designs are selling pieces with purported super steels. The Manix2 XL is released and now it has to compete with literally dozens of other knives from half a dozen or more manufacturers that can easily claim similar performance, fit and finish, warranty, or price. IN addition, it is a much newer design (the CBBL version rather than the original lockback.)

As someone that has been collecting and using the Spyderco Military model for the last 8ish years, anytime there is a new version released it is a good thing. But, with consistent and relevant competition in the marketplace in the last few years, sales are getting trickier. Knives have stopped being a tool and are now considered trendy, I've noticed this based on the high volume of some members on the forums. They buy knives not to use, but simply to collect because they are less expensive than firearms and usually easier to obtain legally and financially.
 
ToddM said:
..... There's also how many they made and how long they've been out there on the market, 800 for the Manix 2 XL in Dec 2013 vs 200 for the millie in 2008.....
Click to expand...

From what I recall, the CF/S90V Millie was produced in a run of 600 pieces.
 
ToddM said:
My guess is Manix 2 XL is just as popular a design/size combination, the pre-order pricing of under $220 was a pretty good deal but they are still pretty easy to find under $250 with patience. There's also how many they made and how long they've been out there on the market, 800 for the Manix 2 XL in Dec 2013 vs 200 for the millie in 2008. Compare that to trying to find a Manix 2 non-XL S90V/CF, or the PM2 S90V/CF and the XL is a steal. In time prices for them might climb.
Click to expand...

Spydiewiki, which is usually accurate, says "ca. 1000" for the S90V Military.
 
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