Can't get sharp

H

HighGrit

Joined
Nov 24, 2021
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I am completely new to knives.
I have several D2 steel knives I am trying to sharpen. That is all I have, no other metal to work with. The knives are mostly Benchmade, some fixed, some folders.
I am working with DMT Coarse and Extra Extra Fine plates.

I have spent hours trying to sharpen even one knife. I have gone over tons of videos and threads, and even asked a friend for help.

No matter my approach or length of time with even one knife, I cannot get them to sharpen. I cannot even get a burr. I tried the sharpie trick, various angles to get the feel, and in the end I cant even cut paper or shave leg hairs.

Any advice? Im about to quit with stones/plates and go use a Spyderco Sharpmaker, even though I really want to learn on the DMT plates.
 
Coarse and Extra Extra Fine seems a little bit inappropiate for me. The step from the coarse stone to the xxf is a big one. Coarse takes away a lot of material. And xxf is for honing. You want sth. in between for maintaining your edge and hone it with the xxf stone.
You should use the coarse stone only for repairing your edge or setting a new bevel, when your blade is very dull.

P.S.: D2 is not easy to sharpen. Maybe you start with a softer steel? Like 420C? Or 440A? Or Carbonsteel?
 
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why cant you raise a burr? with the coarsest plate that you have you should be able to raise one in no time. That is my experience with them anyhow.

try using a different angle? Either your blade spine is too high and you just dont feel the burr that you're making or too low and you're not taking enough passes to get a good burr up?

it's hard to tell you what you need to fix if we dont have photos.

try the sharpie trick again and take photos of the edge then post them here
 
It's likely the angle isn't being held steadily, which results in rounding of the apex. That's why no detectable burr is forming, after all the grinding. If you inspect the edge under magnification and bright light, you might see that it's rounded off. That's a definitive cue that the angle isn't being held steady.

To get a sense of the importance of angle control, it could be worth looking into an angle guide for your blade. Something like the DMT Aligner clamp could work, and it's not expensive. Use it with one inexpensive knife to get some practice and to develop the feel for how it works. Work the edge to a burr (detected from each side) along it's full length, using the coarser hone. Then use the finer hone to clean up the burr and refine the apex.
 
How much pressure are you using? I started getting much better results much faster once I learned to "lighten up" with diamonds.
 
tinfoil hat timmy said:
why cant you raise a burr? with the coarsest plate that you have you should be able to raise one in no time. That is my experience with them anyhow.

try using a different angle? Either your blade spine is too high and you just dont feel the burr that you're making or too low and you're not taking enough passes to get a good burr up?

it's hard to tell you what you need to fix if we dont have photos.

try the sharpie trick again and take photos of the edge then post them here
Click to expand...
I have tried multiple angles. Will try again tonight and post a picture
Obsessed with Edges said:
It's likely the angle isn't being held steadily, which results in rounding of the apex. That's why no detectable burr is forming, after all the grinding. If you inspect the edge under magnification and bright light, you might see that it's rounded off. That's a definitive cue that the angle isn't being held steady.

To get a sense of the importance of angle control, it could be worth looking into an angle guide for your blade. Something like the DMT Aligner clamp could work, and it's not expensive. Use it with one inexpensive knife to get some practice and to develop the feel for how it works. Work the edge to a burr (detected from each side) along it's full length, using the coarser hone. Then use the finer hone to clean up the burr and refine the apex.
Click to expand...
It looks rounded off. Improper angle, then, gets better with practice? Will look into the aligner tool!
Ace Rimmer said:
How much pressure are you using? I started getting much better results much faster once I learned to "lighten up" with diamonds.
Click to expand...
Light pressure. Less than cutting a tomato with a sharp knife light.
 
HighGrit said:
I have tried multiple angles
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THIS, THIS is your problem, don't change angle, ever, I mean, ever, literally, never change the angle while sharpening (unless you're doing a convex edge, but that's a different technique)

Just pick one angle, I don't care if it's 45dps or 10dps, just pick one and keep it through out the sharpening process.

One of the mistake beginners make when learning how to sharpen, is changing angle mid sharpening. Usually they start out at a steeper angle, say, 10dps, they sharpen for 5 minutes and doesn't see a burr, they increase the angle a bit, then increase it again, then again, until they get to 30dps. Now they have a rounded edge.

Just keep one angle, raise the burr on one side, even if it takes you 30 minutes then so be it, don't change the angle (I'm repeating myself b/c this is the most important thing), then raise the burr on the other side. Deburr and you have a sharp knife.
 
1) forget about leg hair, just use paper
2) it's either lack of angle consistency, or too much pressure
 
There's a few things here that are worth talking about.

1) Using a DMT Coarse burr formation should be quite easy. Are you using edge leading or edge trailing strokes?
At this point I would recommend edge trailing only and do not mix stroke directions.
Forming a burr is easier and more apparent using edge trailing strokes.

2) DMT Coarse -> Extra fine is a very large jump and there should probably be an in intermediate step.

3) Angle control is the biggest factor toward forming a sharp blade. Burr formation, and burr removal is the rest of the process.

4) Forget shaving, if you cannot cut paper then you need to start at the beginning:
You need to hold a consistent angle.
You need to remove metal in order to form an edge, or apex.
You need to refine that edge by burr removal and using progressively finer stones/plates.
That is the most elemental description of sharpening I can think of.

If you still have a knife that is dull (but not damaged) I would say do NOT use the Coarse plate. Get an intermediate plate or stone and start there.
Once you use the Coarse plate you are going to have to go through the entire process and that may be more than you are prepared for at this point.
 
First, you should really start with a super cheap, small, thin kitchen knife. Go to Goodwill or a similar thrift store near you and spend no more than $5 on a small knife to practice with. At the right store you can get 3, 4, or 5 of them for $5. Use this to learn about sharpening before you spend any more time on a high end blade. Your nice knives will thank you later.

Next, a DMT C is somewhat coarse, but not coarse enough to make fast progress on a blade that is very dull or damaged. If your knives are somewhat sharp to start, then the DMT C will make them sharp in minutes. If they are extremely dull or damaged, it might require double digit minutes or more (triple digits even) grinding using the DMT C. It all depends upon what you start with. One reason I suggest a cheap paring knife (of decent quality) is that they have extremely thin blades, so you shouldn't have to grind too much, even if you get a fairly dull one. Pocket knives tend to be ridiculously thick and can take a huge amount of effort (by comparison to the paring knife).

Finally, don't listen to too many different ideas or try to incorporate too many at a time. I once trained (in martial arts) with a man who just couldn't make any progress. All of us moved along and he remained stuck and couldn't do basic techniques correctly. We eventually learned that he was taking classes at 4 or 5 different dojos, all at the same time. He wasn't able to do much from any of them correctly because he had nothing consistent to focus on. It's a good idea in any endeavor to focus on one idea, one technique, one school of though when learning. Get that right and then you can move on.

The basic advice you have received in this thread is good:

Consistent angle.
Try to detect burr.
Do the other side until burr.
Remove burr.

I'm hesitant to say much more at this stage except:

Good luck and good sharpening.

Brian.
 
PMQ said:
THIS, THIS is your problem, don't change angle, ever, I mean, ever, literally, never change the angle while sharpening (unless you're doing a convex edge, but that's a different technique)

Just pick one angle, I don't care if it's 45dps or 10dps, just pick one and keep it through out the sharpening process.

One of the mistake beginners make when learning how to sharpen, is changing angle mid sharpening. Usually they start out at a steeper angle, say, 10dps, they sharpen for 5 minutes and doesn't see a burr, they increase the angle a bit, then increase it again, then again, until they get to 30dps. Now they have a rounded edge.

Just keep one angle, raise the burr on one side, even if it takes you 30 minutes then so be it, don't change the angle (I'm repeating myself b/c this is the most important thing), then raise the burr on the other side. Deburr and you have a sharp knife.
Click to expand...
What I meant by different angles is: I tried one angle, coarse to eef, no sharp. Repeated with a smaller angle, still no sharp. I tried for about 15min per side per grit altogether before changing angles. I do slow strokes following the curve of the blade.


ferider said:
1) forget about leg hair, just use paper
2) it's either lack of angle consistency, or too much pressure
Click to expand...

It wont cut paper.

karnaknives said:
There's a few things here that are worth talking about.

1) Using a DMT Coarse burr formation should be quite easy. Are you using edge leading or edge trailing strokes?
At this point I would recommend edge trailing only and do not mix stroke directions.
Forming a burr is easier and more apparent using edge trailing strokes.

2) DMT Coarse -> Extra fine is a very large jump and there should probably be an in intermediate step.

3) Angle control is the biggest factor toward forming a sharp blade. Burr formation, and burr removal is the rest of the process.

4) Forget shaving, if you cannot cut paper then you need to start at the beginning:
You need to hold a consistent angle.
You need to remove metal in order to form an edge, or apex.
You need to refine that edge by burr removal and using progressively finer stones/plates.
That is the most elemental description of sharpening I can think of.

If you still have a knife that is dull (but not damaged) I would say do NOT use the Coarse plate. Get an intermediate plate or stone and start there.
Once you use the Coarse plate you are going to have to go through the entire process and that may be more than you are prepared for at this point.
Click to expand...
Tried both, no success on either leading or trailing edge
Ordered a Sharpmaker, will revisit the plates. Will post images of what I am doing tonight
 
You have had some fine replies. angle consistency is huge. Slow things down and don’t rush.
 
I use a DMT Extra Coarse for profiling and finish on a fine (1200 grit) when sharpening high carbide content steels like D2. It's important to maintain a consistent angle -- I find an angle guide (a ancient Buck Honemaster that clamps to the spine of the blade) very helpful. There are several similar gadgets available. Or, you could just tape a coin (or two) to the blade to set it to the appropriate angle.
 
Not to beat a dead horse, but a consistent angle is everything. I'd recommend buying a cheap angle *reference* (not a guide) to help you keep on track. These are just plastic wedges that you place on the stone. Slap the side of the blade against it so you can experience what a specific angle feels like and refer back to it from time to time to keep from straying too far.

A couple options:

 
3D Anvil said:
Slap the side of the blade against it so you can experience what a specific angle feels like and refer back to it from time to time to keep from straying too far.
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Great suggestion! I still use these from time to time to check myself.
 
You have mostly the right stones, maybe try a course or fine in the middle there but you can get a sharp edge on D2 without even going below a course DMT stone.

Try a consistent angle until the whole edge of one side looks the same. Have a rough idea of how many passes you use. I like to use a back and forth instead of just edge into the stone when setting the edge, it's a lot faster but more prone to error from angle changes as well. Once one side is done, do the other. Repeat until you're doing a few passes on each side then move to the finer stone but you should have an edge set before moving to the finer stones.

Finer stones should make it sharp but it should have an edge good enough to cut right off the extra course.

The only other thing I can think of, which is really unlikely, is that you could be using to acute of an angle and never actually sharpening the edge, just the cheeks of the knife. Benchmade doesn't use the finest of edges on their knives and many of the ones I can think of that used D2 were not fine edge designs. I've done this on several knives in my earlier days of sharpening. Under light you can see a scratch pattern above the edge but it doesn't quite get to the edge. Spend more time with the course stones.
 
I believe holding a consistent angle is the biggest problem for new freehand sharpeners.
Try shorter strokes - just because your plate is 6" or 8" long doesn't mean you have to use the whole thing in one pass. Your arm & wrist have a bunch of joints and as you reach further and get closer there is a tendency to change the angle of the knife. Try to be aware of this.
Also D2 isn't the simplest steel to sharpen. Even after I learned to consistently sharpen it made me question myself. You need good fundamentals.
That said, a coarse plate will remove steel quickly.
 
There are two approaches regarding the first grit to choose for beginners: use medium grit (around 1000) or coarse grit ( around 220-400)

Personally, I'd recommend starting out with the coarse grit, the pros is that you'll raise the burr much faster, depends on your pressure, you can raise a burr in maybe 10 strokes, less strokes means less angle inconsistency. But since the coarse grit remove metal quick, if you keep messing up, you'll end up with a filleting knife

Some other recommends using medium grit, it's basically the opposite: you'll remove metal slower, so you don't end up with a recurve, but it'll take longer to raise a burr and angle inconsistency will add up. Diamond should help b/c even at medium grit, they still remove metal relatively fast.
 
Ourorboros said:
I believe holding a consistent angle is the biggest problem for new freehand sharpeners.
Try shorter strokes - just because your plate is 6" or 8" long doesn't mean you have to use the whole thing in one pass. Your arm & wrist have a bunch of joints and as you reach further and get closer there is a tendency to change the angle of the knife. Try to be aware of this.
Also D2 isn't the simplest steel to sharpen. Even after I learned to consistently sharpen it made me question myself. You need good fundamentals.
That said, a coarse plate will remove steel quickly.
Click to expand...

Oh! Interesting point. I have been trying to do long strokes.

kreisler said:
Sharpmaker will solve all your problems of sharpening!! 💪 :thumbsup:

hehe😷
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Hope so. Used a friend's last night, again. Seemed to make the most progress on the Medium (darker) rods, and at times when I was on the Fine (white) rods it got darker. After 25 strokes on each surface (point and flat) with both sets, and yes tried to use as much of the rod as possible and now realize I didn't need to, going slowly and litterally standing over the blade to ensure it was perpendicular to the table surface (thereby maintaining the rod's 20-degree angle) it still was not sharp enough to simply cut paper, but it DID cut the paper once I got it started a bit. Didnt cut well though.

Thank you everyone for your advice and suggestions. So far it appears the major flaws in my approach, in order of easiest fix to hardest: lesser jumps between grits, shorter strokes, and better angle

How many strokes, approximately, should I expect for a dull D2 blade to get sharp?
 
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