Can't make up my mind between Tsprof Pioneer and Hapstone R2 stranded

[NYCJay]

Hello sharpening system gurus. I'm upgrading from a WS PA with 6 inch stone holder and kakbritva clamp upgrade because I'm tired of moving around the clamp support wedge when I flip the clamp and with only being able to use half of the 6 inch stones because of it's short stone holder arm.
I can get a Tsprof Pioneer with the heavy base for about the same price as the Hapstone R2 Standard with 2 spring stoppers and the fine - tuning adjuster (plus or minus $20). Every time I think I've decided and am about to order I change my mind. Neither has everything I want but honestly either would fit my needs of sharpening my under-four-inch folding and fixed blades and kitchen knives and be infinitely more stable and less annoying than the work sharp PE.
I have angle cubes, an Atoma 140 and venev centaur 100\240 and 400\800 stones along with an edge pro format chromexcel leather strop with 1 micron gunny paste.
What's important to me:
Minimal flex of the clamp assembly.
Clamps that hold well (my Japanese kitchen knives seem to be my only ffg knives).
Stable enough base to not have to hold it with my off hand or clamp it.

What I like about the Tsprof Pioneer:
Looks solid as hell.
Fairly compact nice looking unit.
Stable with the heavy base.
Could get the L adapters for the clamps ($40) to make them more adaptable.

What I like about the Hapstone R2 Standard:
Bearings in the rod holder!
Fine -tuning adjuster. (Could probably make it work on Pioneer?)
Clamps are already L shaped (though they look a little flimsier than the Pioneer clamps)

I'm hoping someone has maybe used the new Tsprof pioneer and can compare it to the Hapstone R2. I've been researching but can't seem to find any direct comparisons or really even much input on blade angle stability, which has become a focal point for me because of the rickety WS precision adjust wiggling at the slightest hint of pressure.
I've been leaning towards the Pioneer because it just looks compact and bombproof solid, but man.. I wish it had bearings in the arm holder and a fine tune angle adjuster of some sort. Both of these systems are pretty near my max budget, a little over actually, but hey it's Christmas right? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Old Biker]

777 Edge Probably has both system. Maybe he will chime in with some answers for you.

O.B.

​

 

[777 Edge]

777 Edge Probably has both system. Maybe he will chime in with some answers for you.

O.B.

​

LOL, yep I have both of them.

I would go for the Hapstone R2 standard, if I were you.

The Pioneer is definitely nice, but it is a lot more limited in what it can do than the Hapstone R2. If you really need a compact system then consider the Pioneer.

The angle range is much more limiting on the Pioneer, and it does not nearly have as many accessories as the R20 that you can upgrade it with if you choose.

 

[NYCJay]

The angle range is much more limiting on the Pioneer, and it does not nearly have as many accessories as the R20 that you can upgrade it with if you choose.

That's true. The R2 can do a lower angle and does have that inexpensive scissor attachment that might be fun..
What's the stroke length like on the Pioneer? Would it be able to handle something like a 2.5 inch wide nakiri while using the L adapter on the clamps or would I run short on stone holder arm length?
My wife and I don't have much storage space in a 1 bedroom NYC co-op, but I bet either system would fit in my Apache case that the WS PA is in now if I take them then mostly apart for storage.
Is the Hapstone R2 steady and solid while sharpening? Everyone seems to love it so I'm guessing it holds things steadier than it looks?

 

[Another Shepherd]

LOL, yep I have both of them.

I would go for the Hapstone R2 standard, if I were you.

The Pioneer is definitely nice, but it is a lot more limited in what it can do than the Hapstone R2. If you really need a compact system then consider the Pioneer.

The angle range is much more limiting on the Pioneer, and it does not nearly have as many accessories as the R20 that you can upgrade it with if you choose.

I have the TSProf Kadet and the Hapstone R2 and V8 systems. Never used a Pioneer.

The OP said: What's important to me: Minimal flex of the clamp assembly. ...
My Kadet flexes less than the R2. I have measured the angles with the stone as far in and as far out as it will go and still contact the blade. Just the weight of the stone changed the angle on the Kadet 0.1 to 0.2 degrees but changed the R2 0.2 to .04 degrees. This was using the same Hapstone stones on both, which I think are heavier than the TSProf stones.

But the TSProf did not have a magnetic table for the Kadet the last time I check. That is indeed a serious limitation.

 

[nautiquess]

I would skip both and go to the Tsprof Kadet for a little more money. Buy the L-adapters and you can to pretty much anything on it. I can do my wusthof asian knives easily at 10 Deg.

 

[NYCJay]

I would skip both and go to the Tsprof Kadet for a little more money. Buy the L-adapters and you can to pretty much anything on it. I can do my wusthof asian knives easily at 10 Deg.

I thought about that originally and was planning to wait to see if anyone would run a good site discount code around the holidays, but I dislike the more complicated dynamics of setting your angle. Looks like you would have to re-zero out on the pivot assembly and then check your angle on the stone holder repeatedly to dial it in. Not the end of the world but considering I would want the pro version for the fine tuning knob it becomes a ~ $520 setup after buying the L adapters that still requires clamping to a table most of the time.
I'm hoping to stay under $400 if possible.

 

[777 Edge]

I thought about that originally and was planning to wait to see if anyone would run a good site discount code around the holidays, but I dislike the more complicated dynamics of setting your angle. Looks like you would have to re-zero out on the pivot assembly and then check your angle on the stone holder repeatedly to dial it in.

Exactly, that's one of the more fiddly shortcomings of a system like the TSProf Kadet (and Blitz).

Flex on the Hapstone R2 is minimal and will not affect your actual sharpening angle at all if you don't use excessive force.

If you were to use excessive force, the flex in a system like this is actually a very good thing - so don't see it as a negative. What happens when you apply too much force, is that the knife blade will deflect downwards (which protects your very delicate edge), and you'll end up removing a little metal just behind the edge. If your system were to have zero flex, then you could easily damage your edge if you apply too much pressure. A little bit of flex is part of a good design, and saves your edge if you have a slip-up and apply a bit too much pressure while sharpening.

As far as reach goes, the Hapstone R2 has much more reach that you would likely ever need. More than the TSProf Pioneer (which also has enough reach for most knives). FYI, the Pioneer does not only have more of a low angle limitation than the R2, it also has a significant high angle limit due to it's very short vertical angle adjustment rod.

For info, as far as fine tuning goes, I did design a fine tuning adapter for Gritomatic - specifically for the Pioneer. Gritomatic has those (not listed), if you end up really wanting to go for a Pioneer and you want a fine tuning adapter for it.

 

[NYCJay]

What happens when you apply too much force, is that the knife blade will deflect downwards (which protects your very delicate edge), and you'll end up removing a little metal just behind the edge.

Makes sense. I guess a little flex isn't such a bad thing as I do sometimes apply more pressure than I should after spending way too long re-profiling a hard knife that's thick behind the edge, like that time I re-profiled a TRC K-S1 down to 16° and it took me 2 hours even with the Atoma 140. I got frustrated and started pushing pretty hard lol. I should have just set the new bevel with my WS KO w\ blade grinder attachment, but you know, 1 bedroom NYC co-op. Metal and abrasive dust.
I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Hapstone R2 with a pair of spring stoppers, the fine tuning adaptor and was able to add on the scissor adaptor while staying under $400 shipped.
I really wanted the Pioneer, but in the end it just didn't make sense to not get the R2 on my budget. I think what really decided it for me was the little lever on the pioneer you have to pull to flip the knife. After about 20 flips I'd be thinking: here we go again.. using two hands to flip instead of keeping hold of the stone arm, ready to stroke.
Thanks for everyone's input. I think it will be a nice setup and infinitely more enjoyable than the WS precision adjust.

 

[777 Edge]

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Hapstone R2 with a pair of spring stoppers, the fine tuning adaptor and was able to add on the scissor adaptor while staying under $400 shipped.

Congratulations! I'm sure you'll love the R2, it's a great system and a solid choice.

 

[adluginb]

5STASSA23 code gets 5% off tsprof