Can't Sharpen for Sh=%!

K

Ken_Jutsu

Joined
Oct 26, 2003
Messages
4
Greetings,

I must be an idiot or something. I have had Arkansas Wet Stones, the Lansky kit, and the Spyderco Sharpmaker and I still can't get a decent edge on any of my knives.

I have had my Sharpmaker for about a year. I set it up properly and carefully align the blade so it's vertical. Not applying too much pressure, I guide the blade downward evenly, first on one side, then the other (approx. 20 strokes each side before changing to the next grit).

So far I have managed to round off the points of my knives, and I have obtained very inconsistent results with various knives. The most consistent result is a "not dull but not sharp" edge.

I have tried adjusting my view as I sharpen, I've tried changing the number of strokes per side and still no good results! Before I go throw away more money on another sharpening system, I would like to try some consultation.

I tell you, it's embarassing. I'm close to 40 years old and it's like I can't tie my dang shoes or something!

Can anyone set me on the right path?

Thanks
 
Watch the video again, or buy it if you don't have it. It sounds like you're doing it right, but maybe not using enough pressure. Put enough downforce on your knife so that you feel the hone "bite". You'll know it when you feel it. You only use light strokes on the last few, when the knife's already sharp, on the fine hones. Also use a magic marker on both sides of the edge to be sure that you're actually sharpening the edge, not the back bevel. Some knives are'nt beveled acutely enough to work with the sharpmaker, so use the marker. Go slow at 1st & check your work often. It's a good tool once you get the hang of it.
It's not a question of how many strokes per side. It's a question of raising a burr. For a dull knife, the best way to get the burr is to just sharpen on one side with the coarse hone. When you get the burr, then do the same on the other side. Once you've done that, THEN start alternating sides & moving to finer hones as you gradually remove the burr & polish the edge.
P.S. Welcome to the forums
 
In case you don't know. A burr is when steel is pushed up on the other side of the blade from the side you are grinding on. So, grind on one side only until you get a burr along the hole edge then switch to the other side and do the same. After you have gotten this burr on both sides, one then the other, Then sharpen/hone lightly on both sides like you are doing now. Good luck and let us know how you've done.
 
Oh yeah... To not round the tip. Don't let the tip slide off the hone stop your stroke before the tip comes off the rods.
 
it is possibe that you'll need more than the 20 strokes, depending on how dull it started out. I had the dame problem with an old KABAR 110 , and I had to use a file, it was so dull.--Joe
 
Maybe be this will help:

Having been sharpening my own blades for the last 30+ years I've come to notice a few things in regards to what you use to sharpen a knife. Diamond hones remove massive amounts of steel and sharpen a blade fast but even with the finest hone you will still need to finish your blade on a strop or ceramic hone to smooth out the edge. Always sharpen at the desired angle,(between 17-24 degrees, depending on the thickness of the blade) till you get a wire edge on one side, (the best way to feel for this is to slide your thumbnail from the spine side, or back of the blade towards the edge) when you encounter a wire edge it will feel like a little lip has formed where the wire edge has rolled over. Next sharpen the opposite side till you achieve the same result. Done on a Fine Diamond Hone, finish off by repeating the process using lighter pressure on each subsequent stroke and the wire edge will become smaller. When the wire edge is barely noticeable with your fingernail. Finish with a leather strop and stropping compound by applying a reasonable amount of force and dragging the blade backwards on the leather at a slightly less angle than you sharpened,(the leather will actually curl around the edge of the blade and wear off the wire edge) after a few strokes on the leather on both side you should have a finished edge. When the edge of the sharpened blade is rested on the smooth part of your thumbnail it will dig in, (bite into the nail with no additional pressure), Your knife should now be shaving sharp.

Diamonds are more aggressive and faster than wet stones or oilstones but will accomplish the same results with a smoother more polished edge, and depending on the grit of the stone may take a lot longer. The key either way is repetition, the more you perform the same task your brain starts memorizing the pathways through your body needed to accomplish this task. Eventually holding an angle, smoothness of stroke, all become second nature, and the task becomes easier. That’s why it always looks easier when someone else whose good at it does it.

My way is not the only way but it works for me, if you feel confident enough to attempt your own blades, start on a cheaper knife that your not afraid of ruining, and remember it’s easier to sharpen a knife that’s not dull, than to sharpen one that is. So don’t wait till your knife won’t even cut butter before you dress up that edge. LOL

PS as for my preference I prefer a diamond hone just because I think it's quicker, and more versatile I can accomplish the same thing with one hone by just varying pressure to the blade as I sharpen.
 
First thing I would suggest, is reading a copy of "The razor edge book of sharpening"....it will explain a lot.

You couldn't possibly be raising a burr with 20 strokes on the gray spyderco sticks, unless the knife is already sharp and already ground at the same degree or lower than the sharpmaker.

It took me in the ballpark of 1000 strokes per side to raise a burr when I reprofiled one of my knives to 15 degrees using them. (Many days of an hour or two a night) It was also the last time I tried to sharpen an extremely dull knife using a sharpmaker. I now use it just to quickly touch up already sharp knives....I don't let them get dull anymore ;)

Something you could try is to take one of your other hones (a nice course one) and lay it against the spyderco stick....that will keep the correct angle, and use that in the same way as the ceramics to raise the burr. Then use the sharpmaker rods to remove the burr and polish the edge.
 
Ceramic rods and arkansas stones do not cut very fast. I suspect that you are not removing enough material. Try sharpening using more force and only using the edges of the coarsest, brown, stones. Always alternate sides. Clean your stones periodically with water and abrassive sink cleanser. You should be able to get an edge that slices agressively using only the edges of the brown stones. Only after you get a good edge using the edges of the brown stones even look at doing it any other way. Don't start using light pressure until you have a basic edge established.

The commonest problem that I can think of is using hones that are too fine and not enough pressure to establish an edge. The flats of the stones and the fine white rods are only there to refine the edge once you establish an edge using the fastest cutting brown rod edges. You don't even need to use the white rods at all. The other thing that can make for a sub-standard edge is to use too high an angle. Establish your edge at the lower 15 degree settings. Finnish with just a few strokes at 20 degrees.

What type of blades are you using. If the alloy is hard to sharpen, such as some stainless or tool steels, you may have a lot more work to do than you would expect. Also if the blade is ground at a rather high angle you may have an awful lot of metal to remove. Color the side of the edge with a permanent marker and see where your hone removes the ink when you hone. That can tell you if you have an angle problem.
 
I came back to read and found a whole slew of helpful replies! I'm very impressed with, not only the level of knowledge on this forum, but with the extremely helpful attitude! Some forums are a complete waste of bits and bytes. Obviously your's is not.

I will try the suggestions in the feedback and let you know how it's going.

By the way, I see some people talk about the Sharpmaker and a 17 degree or 20 degree angle. Mine has only 30 and 40 degrees (a cheaper version?). Can you get a good shaving sharp edge with 30 degrees on a fairly thin blade such as the one found on the BM 940 Osborne?

Thanks again for your information and your helpfulness.
 
The Sharpmaker angle settings are labeled 30-degrees and 40-degrees to indicate the included angle for the finished edge. The 30-degree implies a sharpening angle of 15-degrees, while the 40-degree designation implies a sharpening angle of 20 degrees per side. Your final edge included angle is 2x the sharpening angle.

I thin the edge down by mostly sharpening at the 30-degree setting and then finish with a little bit of sharpening at the 40-degree setting.
 
What he said. :) Stick with the 40 degree setting for your final edge. Some people like to thin out the blade with the 30 degree setting which helps improve the ability to slice through things. If you use the 30 degree setting for your final edge it will be to weak for most chores and dull quickly, unless you're using it on a fine kitchen knife or something.
 
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