Car runs ruff sometimes, and then it dies. Please help..

jeepin

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:confused:I have an 83 oldsmobile delta 88 with the 5.0 liter v8 engine.
For some reason it is running a little ruff when first started after it gets warmed up it seems to smooth out.
When first started sometimes it dies.
I restart it, it acts like it wants to die, then I have to give it some gas so it wont.

I just replaced the spark plugs, wires, cap, and rotor, new fuel filter,
That didnt fix it.
A friend said it is the ignition control module. I replaced that today, Didnt help.
Another friend thinks its the choke which he says needs to be adjusted, but im not sure.


If anyone has any thoughts what it could be I would greatly appreciate it.
 
An '83 Olds 88, eh? This is a "normally aspirated" engine (carburator), as opposed to fuel-injection, right? Oldsmobile used to be somewhat notorious for sticking chokes.
 
Wow. There are a whole bunch of things that could cause that. Bad temp sensor for the choke. Vacuum lines that control things like the pcv valve or brake booster. Bad pcv valve. Plugged inlet screen on the carb. Problems with the charcoal canister or evap system. Bad coil. Plugged air filter. Clogged catalytic converter. Weak fuel pump.

What color were the plugs when you replaced them? Any one look blacker and oilyer than the others? Does the car run hot? Could it be vapor lock from extra heat boiling the fuel out of the carb? How long does it take to start? A lot of cranking, or right away? Does it cruise down the highway at full speed ok?

Don't keep replacing parts. That gets way too expensive way too fast. Do some cheap diagnostics first.
 
Yeah it is carburated.
And when I start it it starts right up.
Forgot to mention that the vacuum hoses have all been replaced.
You mentioned the catalytic converter. I just had the exhaust checked out and the guy said the catalytic converters got a hole in it.
If the catalytic converter is so plugged could it have enough pressure to make a hole?.

I know it's not the air filter.
It's got a k&n filter which I just cleaned and oiled.

I heard the choke on it is electronic.
If it's sticking could I clean inside and outside with the electronic parts cleaner?
 
If it is a cater carb on it the electric choke on them is ran off the alternater and are known to brake. If that is the case a new choke is not cheap for it but you can get a manual choke for about $15 and is a fast fix
 
What do you have to do to change it over from an electronic choke to a manual choke?
 
Well, before you convert it to a manual choke, do a few checks to see if the electric choke is indeed bad. When you go out to the car in the morning, pop the hood and take off the air cleaner. Have someone watch the choke plate while you crank it. If it's a cool morning, the choke plate should be partially closed (tilted 45 degrees or even closer to horizontal), then as the engine warms up, it should open (pivot to straight up and down). If it does not move, or you can't move it with a gentle push (use a screwdriver please, no sense getting a backfire on your hand), or by pushing the gas pedal to the floor, it may indeed be stuck. If the plate starts out partially closed, and moves to fully open once the car is warm, it's working fine.

Why did one friend think the choke needed adjustment? Did he look at it or fiddle with it?

If it is stuck, a quick cleaning might free it up, but IIRC that type of choke had a small heating element inside near the standard bi-metal spring that opened the choke plate when the coolant temp sensor (not the alternator) sent 12v to it. It may be easier to just replace the electric choke mechanism. Go to your local auto parts store, and ask to see the electric choke off the car. It should be only a couple of screws, and would be easier to replace than changing to a manual choke, IF the electrical system feeding it juice is working. +

Personally, I'd still bet there's something wrong electrically. There is an old saying in the racing circles I hang out in: 90 percent of fuel system problems are ignition. Meaning, you can spend a lot of time screwing with carbs that work fine, trying to fix what ultimately is an electrical gremlin.

Once again, don't jump to solutions just on someone elses hunch. You could spend several hours getting a $20 manual choke kit to "work" just to find out the choke was fine all along and you've got some other problem. Diagnose first, then make educated repairs. It's cheaper in the long run, trust me, I've been there too.
 
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thanks xdshooter.
I will give that a try.
I dont know why my friend thought it was the choke. He didnt mess with it. I guess he thought that was the only other thing it could be.
I do have a question.
Is there 2 different temp sensors on this car?.
I seen the one which is right in the intake manifold, and I when I looked at it I noticed the wires have been smashed down, and it looks pretty old.
Maybe it would be worth replacing that temp sensor anyway?.
Also where is the other temp sensor?, or is there only one?.
Thanks in advance..
 
Have you replaced the PCV valve recently? Those things are only like $5 or $6. Might be worth a try.
 
Is the pcv the same thing as the breather.
On the one valve cover there is a big breather, with the other end of the breather running into the air cleaner.
Here is a pic of the temp sensor. to show the wires. They are still connected but they are exposed.
There is actually 2 things that look like a temp sensor, they are right next to each other.
I am assuming the one on the right is the temp sensor?.
Anyone know what the other one could be?.
Also when I took off the air cleaner, the butterfly valve was sticking straight up and down.
 

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The pcv valve should be going into the other valve cover. Opposite the breather. If you pull it out while the engine is running (mind the fan blade!) , you should have decent vacuum pull there. If you take it out of the hose, the little ball inside should rattle freely. Was this an engine swap? I see the weather pac connector (with the green gasket) with the three unplugged spots in the photo, and I didn't think GM started using that connector until later on.

Those both look like temp senders, one could be for the light on the dash. More than likely the sensor with one wire goes to the dash. Follow the wires and see if the other one sends a wire to the carb.

You say the choke plate was vertical with a cold engine? And it starts right up? Kinda a tough month to test the choke, with warmer temperatures, but if it doesn't choke the car at all with the engine cold, it could be a problem. However, if the choke stays wide open once the engine is warmed up, it might be working fine. What position is the choke in when the engine dies? I've had carter 2 barrels that would get the choke closed, then die. Even with a warmed up engine. The only way to get them started again was to prop the choke open partially with a screwdriver or pair of pliers (something that wouldn't fall in!).

Is it possible that someone messed with an idle adjustment screw or main throttle plate stop screw to get it to start? I've seen this before, where people compensate for a broken choke by letting more fuel through an idle adjustment, then cutting the idle RPM back down by screwing up the throttle stop. The car then starts, and idles, but is a dog off the line, and generally runs too rich. You say that when the car dies, you have to give it gas to get it going again. Does it start ok if you push the pedal to the floor? Or do you HAVE to pump it? Opening up the throttle plate, and getting a breath of fresh air into the engine helps if it was getting flooded by an overly rich idle adjustment. This can be really frustrating, because people can only get the car to start by pushing the gas pedal, which leads them to think the car isn't getting enough gas. When in actuality, it needs fresh air to work the rich condition through the cylinders.

BTW, a messed up carb running rich WILL plug the catalytic converter. I don't buy the "cat has a hole in it" theory. Unless someone cut the darn thing off the car, you can't tell that. Unless he was talking about a rusted out hole on the outside, and with that you would heard the exhaust leak.

I think it is time to take this car to someone with a few basic diagnosis tools. Vacuum gauge, multimeter, fuel pressure gauge, spark tester, timing light. If you can find someone with just a few basics, you can go a long way to keeping this car running.
 
Also, I just read over at wikipedia that your car had an oxygen sensor that controlled the carb: "The system read various parameters such as vehicle speed, throttle position, engine RPM's, coolant temperature, and the oxygen content of the exhaust to provide the correct air/fuel mixture for any given driving condition"

Soooo. . . besides all those possibly bad sensors, the carb must have an electric servo or needle valve inside too. New culprit that jumps out to me is the O2 sensor. But find someone to test yours before you replace it. All they need is a multimeter.
 
I did have a friend mess with the idle control. That was when I first noticed it have a miss feeling to it. He thought turning up the idle would fix it.
As far as the catalytic converter goes I'm sure it was a rust hole.
This guy is a trust worthy mechanic who everyone recommends.
Anyway I think I will just take it in somewhere instead of fighting with it myself.
Thank you very much for your help.
 
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