Carbide Edge Question

J

JSimeon

Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5
Hey Daniel,
I really like your knives and chisel ground edges. I see you doing a lot of carbide edges too. I am a hobby maker and I am looking at maybe putting some carbide on some say cpm 154. Do you see any issues with this. Also, do you lay down the carbide and then sharpen? Just wondering about the process?

Thanks,
Jamie Simeon
 
I will step in... since Daniel is with his newborn baby!

He carbides titanium edges, as Ti is softer, the carbide edge provides more/extra cutting longevity and power.

Carbidizing CPM154 would not really offer any advantage as I understand.

Others will chime in and Daniel will later I'm sure.

Enjoy!
 
You can cabidize anything softer than the carbide itself. I know in years past Daniel has done some O1 knives, but as for an advantage over a properly heat treated base steel, I don't see it. It would be kinda cool as an alternative to serrations, but personally I don't think it offers enough to use on real knife steel.


--Xander
 
Hey Jamie, welcome to the forum. I believe it is best to apply the Carbide before you sharpen. While the benefits of the carbide edge won't show its self as much as it would on Ti , the carbide edge on cpm154 would be beneficial in holding a working edge longer but you will sacrifice the ability to keep a keen fine shaving type edge. It would definitely be worth checking back for Daniels reply.
 
I thought that it was also self sharpening, ie. as you cut items it exposes additional carbides.
 
In a sense it is... as the softer material wears, the carbides remain as a toothy cutting edge. But you can't really smooth that edge out.. So the CPM154 or O1 can get real slicey.. then as it wears you get a snaggle tooth cutting edge...

It makes sense on Ti.. Not so much on anything else, save for style points... :D
 
Sometimes, style points are the only points that matter :)

Someone make Rolf a tanto and deposit carbide on the blade in the form of a mini tanto! We got xzibit up in this joint!
 
What joint? And you referring to rapper xzibit? Where?
 
JSimeon said:
Hey Daniel,
I really like your knives and chisel ground edges. I see you doing a lot of carbide edges too. I am a hobby maker and I am looking at maybe putting some carbide on some say cpm 154. Do you see any issues with this. Also, do you lay down the carbide and then sharpen? Just wondering about the process?

Thanks,
Jamie Simeon
Click to expand...

Thanks Jamie! :D also... welcome to Bladeforums!

CPM154/carbide - I have seen some knives with either CPM154 or 154cm and Carbide so it likely can be done... I have heard but not experienced that sometimes higher chromium stainless steel will not take the carbide.

The carbide is going to make the edge cut more aggressively and keep that aggressive edge longer. Even if you polish the edge it will remain toothy which can be great in a lot of circumstances.

Most people are not going to be into the steel/carbide combo but I personally feel it is an area that needs to be explored further. Only a lot of testing can really say. I do loads of testing but would like to compare Ti/Carbide, Steel alone, Steel/Carbide.

I made a group in A2 with carbide, they were nasty cutters! I'd like to see what they will do on rope or another tough to cut material over time.

The steel/carbide combo will not be self sharpening like the Ti but I still feel it may have some advantages. If you want a fine edge stick to only steel.

I know for fact carbide will leave a nasty cut... better for self defense without question.

Another area carbide has not really been explored enough yet is in kitchen knives. Protein cutters...

Carbide then sharpen but the literature says otherwise. You can apply after sharpening and strop but sometimes the machine can slightly damage a thin edge... so I just apply the carbide then sharpen. Either way is really OK.

So yes, carbide/Ti is a proven combo but the steel needs further exploration... if you need an aggressive edge I don;t see why it wouldn't improve the knife.



And thanks guys for helping out... I really appreciate it and enjoy talking knives with everyone! Everyone brought up some great points... I'm just adding in! :D
 
Carbidizing is ordinarily done on chisel sharpened knives on the non-bevel side. This allows the knife to be sharpened without removing the carbide from the working edge and exposes fresh carbide when the bevel side is sharpened. To some extent the blade will be self-sharpening because the blade material will wear away in preference to the harder carbide coating.
Titanium blades are ordinarily coated with Titanium carbide using a TiC electrode. Steel blades are ordinarily coated with Tungsten carbide using a WC electrode. There is no problem applying WC to stainless kitchen knives which contain 14+% Chrome. You just have to grind them to the chisel configuration before Carbidizing.
WC has an HRC (Hardness Rockwell C scale) of 72. TiC is harder than WC but is not as tough.
 
Carbidizing is ordinarily done on chisel sharpened knives on the non-bevel side. This allows the knife to be sharpened without removing the carbide from the working edge and exposes fresh carbide when the bevel side is sharpened. To some extent the blade will be self-sharpening because the blade material will wear away in preference to the harder carbide coating.
Titanium blades are ordinarily coated with Titanium carbide using a TiC electrode. Steel blades are ordinarily coated with Tungsten carbide using a WC electrode. There is no problem applying WC to stainless kitchen knives which contain 14+% Chrome. You just have to grind them to the chisel configuration before Carbidizing.
WC has an HRC (Hardness Rockwell C scale) of 72. TiC is harder than WC but is not as tough.
 
Thanks Daniel and everybody!!! I am going to try it out and see how it goes. It can't hurt and will be fun to play around with anyway. Keep up the great work Daniel and have fun with the new baby. The get big in a hurry. Slow down and enjoy!!

Jamie
 
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