Carbon steel or Stainless steel? - - Slightly off topic

wildmanh

wildmanh

Part time Leather Bender/Sheath maker
Joined
Jul 9, 2000
Messages
7,764
Here is the deal; Next month I'll be ordering an 18" Sirupati from Uncle Bill and a Dempsey Knives D' TAC II Special to go with it.:) I just can't deside if I should order the "Special" with a 154CM stainless steel Blade or with a Differential Heat treated Carbon steel Blade. What do you guys think?

I'm ordering the knife with Black Micarta handle slabs and possibly a 5.5" blade. Hope it's okay for my to ask such a question here. And thanks for looking.
 
Wildmanh I love Davids work and I own 4 of his knives! I have a Naked necker a D Fighter II that I had him make with a wider blade and a D tac II clip point blade and a small tanto neck knife. I think you should go with S30V it is far better than 154CM and is a tough as A2. I flexed them in a vice and S30V is very flexable for stainless. S30V is just great stuff and David really likes it also! His Carbon is also tops! I have one in O1 tool steel that really cuts well and holds it's edge great. You can't go wrong with eithor!

David is one of the nicest guys, he is helping me get started making my own blades. He really has a wealth of knowledge about hand made knives. We even talked about making the very first Khukuri in S30V maybe a little down thr road.:D
 
Heber, Chris has given excellent advice. The new stainless steels definitely have a place in today's world. Just bear in mind that most of them are much more difficult to sharpen even though they do stay sharper longer.
I have an Aitor Cuchilla De Monte that stays sharp forever that's stainless. It's the very 1st stainless knife that lives up to the claims I've seen.
 
Yvsa, what do you use to sharpen your stainless? I have been using Spyderco ceramic with some good luck but I have some trouble with a Spyderco Dragonfly in ATS-55. I get it shaving sharp and it goes dull by cutting one or 3 cuts on cardboard! I can't feel a burr so i don't know why i can't get it to hold an edge????? I'm starting to think it is a bad heat treat. I'm going to change the angle a few times and see if that helps. Any thoughts?
 
Originally posted by SkagSig40
Yvsa, what do you use to sharpen your stainless? I have been using Spyderco ceramic with some good luck but I have some trouble with a Spyderco Dragonfly in ATS-55. I get it shaving sharp and it goes dull by cutting one or 3 cuts on cardboard! I can't feel a burr so i don't know why i can't get it to hold an edge????? I'm starting to think it is a bad heat treat. I'm going to change the angle a few times and see if that helps. Any thoughts?
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Chris diamond is the answer to the modern and excellent stainless steels.
I prefer the Duo-Fold DMT's and then a good stroping. I took Cliff Stamps advice on the DMT products long ago and have never been sorry.
When I 1st got my black DMT I thought I would never need it as it cuts very aggressively, but I find it invaluable when changing an angle in very hard steel such as the new stainlesses are.
I like it even for well hardened 52100!!!!:)

There's a thread over in the Camillus Forum about the Norton Fine India Oil Stone that you might check out if you haven't read it.
Seems as if the Fine India by Norton is Jerry Fisk's favorite stone.
I don't recall if stainless was discussed there or not though.
I recently purchased a couple of Norton Stones from Smokey Mountain as they were/are having a Commemorative Sale on Norton's 175th Anniversary.
The 8" X 2" X 1" stones were/are going for only $9.99!!!!!
Helluva deal.:D
 
Thanks for the replies guys. Chris, I figured that some members at the Cantina would have heared of David, but 4 knives, WOW! Sounds like you already have a TAC II Special (it's a TAC II with a Clip point blade). What do you use it for (if you use it)? And, how's the blade length? Is it Just right or do you think it should be longer? I ask aabout length because I too now have a distorted perseption on knife size. After using 15" to 25" Khukuris, other knives seem small when thinking about them.

Yvsa, I come here asking which steel to get (thinking I'll get told to go with the Carbon), you guys not only say that the Stainless steel is sweet and how to sharpen it. Thanks a bunch :) You guys have proven once again that the Cantina is a great place!:D

Stainless = :grumpy:
Carbon = :D
just my two rubles.
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he he he :D Some knives I like Carbon steel and others I like Stainless steel. Strange eh?
 
Heber, if you were'nt strange to start with you'd never have fit in here! :footinmou :D
 
For small using knives like hunters I like stainless blades (154CM, ATS34 or the CPM stuff). Far less maintenance required especially if you, like me, live in a climate that hates steel (hot, humid, rains all year round). I also like D2, especially the way Bob Dozier does it. For choppers i prefer plain old carbon steel.

Andrew Limsk
 
Heber, I bought the TAC II special from David at the Blade show in May. The blade is about 4 and 1/8 inches long .207 thick and just over 1 inch wide, overall length is just over 9 1/4 inches. Very small compaired to a 15 inch AK. This makes a great sheath knife for hiking and camping food prep, skinning and will even pry alot! David really puts alot of thought into his handles as this is probibly the most comfortable knife I have ever held! It is a knife you can carry all day and not know you have it on. I have kind of small hands as the length from the bottom of my palm where my wrist starts to the tip of my middle finger is 7 and 1/4 inches. This handle fits me just right so if you have big hands you might want to talk to David about handle options and have him make it a little bigger to fit your hand.
And when you buy the knife go for the S30V!!! It is worth it big time!!! Very tough steel!!!;)
 
The new stainless steels do perform much better than the older ones, but at a price. They are more difficult to sharpen.

For my money, most stainless steels that hold an edge comparable to a good carbon steel are harder to sharpen than the carbon steel. Of course, you get a more maintenance free blade. But I don't mind taking care of a fine blade. I consider it a pleasure.

I also love the patina a good carbon steel blade takes on over a period of time.
 
Thanks again for such good input.:)

Chris, I think I'll order one is S30V, the steel sounds really good. My hand is about 1/4" longer than yours so the handle should fit great. Am glad it performs well as a Camp knife, that is what I plan to use it as. Oh and BTW, what handle slabs does your knife have? Just curious.

I don't mind spending some extra time sharpening a knife plus the low maintenance factor and Chris's recomendation is why I desided to go with S30V. Thanks again

Now to deside if I want a horn or wood Handled 18" Sirupati to go with it.:p
 
Heber, My TAC II has A light red/pinkish color...burgande??? It has blue spacers that really look good. It is Micarta. I have not yet sharpened S30V so I'm not sure how hard it will be so sharpen. I did get the chance to sharpen a 440V blade that is supposed to be one of the hardest steels to sharpen and i had it razor sharp in less than a minute using a cardboard wheel mounted on my grinder motor. So S30V should be a lot easier than 440V to sharpen. I think I have the picture David emailed me, I'll try to email it to you hope it will open!:)
 
Chris, I got the email and the pic showed up great. That sure is a sweet knife you have. Thanks for sending me the pic. I'll be placing an order for a Black handled TAC II Special real soon. Thanks to you and David.:D

Heber, if you were'nt strange to start with you'd never have fit in here!:footinmou:D
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Thanks Rusty. :D I've met some girls at college that think I'm crazy for liking knives and worse, Khukuris.:eek:

-- Edit --

The second email just came in intact. Nice pics.:)
 
Originally posted by SkagSig40
Good I'm glad it worked! Let me know what you think of the knife when you get it!:D
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I'll be sure to do that.;)
 
Originally posted by wildmanh


*SNIPPING*


Thanks Rusty. :D I've met some girls at college that think I'm crazy for liking knives and worse, Khukuris.:eek:

*SNIPPING*
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*ALL* the gals I meet are freaked out by my collecting of sharp pointy objects! I know of only 3 girls that aren't! :grumpy:
 
Originally posted by wildmanh


*SNIPPING*

Yvsa, I come here asking which steel to get (thinking I'll get told to go with the Carbon), you guys not only say that the Stainless steel is sweet and how to sharpen it. Thanks a bunch :) You guys have proven once again that the Cantina is a great place!:D



he he he :D Some knives I like Carbon steel and others I like Stainless steel. Strange eh?
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Not strange, just preference. Stainless steels have the advantage of having the incredibly well-advanced technology in effect, as well as the obvious property of staining less. The CPM-series stainless steels have jaw-dropping capabilities, with insanely-high Carbon and Vanadium contents, allow for incredible edge holding, wear resistance and hardness. However, it's equally as incredibly hard to get the edge there in the first place! However, I heard that the CPM-series stainless can be slightly brittle. That may have been an isolated case with a Spyderco Bob Terzuola Starmate (with a CPM-T 440V blade). The owner (a staff member at a knife store) was showing it off and the tip impacted a glass display cabinet and promptly broke. The unlucky owner now has an extremely expensive, sharp-edged screwdriver...

On the other hand, Carbon steels definately follow the KISS principle: Keep It Simple, Stupid.

They're simple, and can be differentially tempered, with a hard edge and a softer, springy back. They can outperform most lower-end stainless steels, IMOHO...
 
Wildman, Huibuke:

Keep looking. they're out there. You might need to get in with some martial arts chix, or re-enactor chix, tomboys, etc.

I had one girl trained well enough that she could spot a real steel sword in a pile of wallhanger junk swords...and I married her. She likes khuks 'cause "they're curvy and sharp." I do love her!

Keith
En Ferro Veritas
 
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