Carbon Steel Recommendation

J

Jay Griesser

Joined
May 12, 2017
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41
I make kitchen knives using ABE-L. A friend wants a carbon kitchen blade. Any recommendations on the carbon steel I should use? I want to try carbon steel.
 
A kitchen knife can be a bit vague. If he wants a hard use all rounder, 80CrV2 will do fine. If he wants better edge stability for extremely fine edges, 52100 will do well up to 62-63hrc. If you want to take it to the extreme, 26c3 can be used up to 65-66hrc, much like the Japanese white#1.
 
1.2519 from GFS UK.
Easy to heat treat and will hold an edge for long time.
It's close to Hitachi blue that Japanese makers use
 
Three great suggestions, can’t think of anything better, just maybe 8670, not better than the three steels mentioned, but even tougher and easy to heat treat? 15n20 also comes to my mind. Maybe Willie71 Willie71 shimes in.
 
after initially being put off by the difficulty of processing Zwear, I'm accepting it more and more,

I spoke to a customer who has one of my Z wear gyutos and is a collector user,

He offered the following thoughts
1) Z wear has more bite to the edge than 52100
2) The bitey edge lasts longer 52100
3) much more corrosion resistant

The only downside is it's not as easy to sharpen as 52100, Zwear is not difficult, just more so than 52100 which is easy to sharpen.
Zwear can be sharpened on the same stones that you would sharpen carbon steel on.

but in general I prefer any laminated steel blade with a high carbon core.
 
Joel Mercier said:
Also, H HSC /// , doesn't sharpening a blade with something softer than it's carbide
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not sure if I understand you here... how do you sharpen a blade with something softer?

also your question is beyond my pay grade... :D . someone one with more study time in this area should respond.
 
Joel Mercier said:
Here's an article on edge stability, which is in my humble opinion, an important attribute when choosing a kitchen cutlery steel.

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/08/27/what-is-edge-stability/

Also, H HSC /// , doesn't sharpening a blade with something softer than it's carbide cause carbide tear out and lead to lessened abrasion resistance of it's apex?
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Yes Joel, your are correct. While with coarser edges one is able to get by with softer sharpening stones I feel to get the best out of Zwear and refined edges diamond stones are your friend as they can cut vanadium influenced carbides instead of tearing them out or burnishing. I have played with sharpening stones quiet a bit over the last few years and every time i try something different i always end up going back to diamonds and the results are always obvious in my use.
 
Jay Griesser said:
I make kitchen knives using ABE-L. A friend wants a carbon kitchen blade. Any recommendations on the carbon steel I should use? I want to try carbon steel.
Click to expand...

who is heat treating it, or if it’s you, what equipment do you have? That will open up, or narrow down the choice. For simple carbon steel, with basic equipment, use 8670, 15n20, 1084, or possibly 80CRV2. I only say possibly on 80CRV2 because I haven’t made one out of that steel. With temp control, and/or engineered oil, 52100, 1095, O1, W2, a number of european tungsten steels, and 26c3 all make very good kitchen knives. Hitachi White and Blue are excellent as well, but we have to order those from Germany. Cruforgev is good too, but it has to be forged thinner. It’s only available in .250”. With a good oven, and dewar, z-wear is excellent, and initial testing with M4 and V4E show they are quite similar. As HSC noted, the edge is a bit toothier than the simple carbon steels, but less so than steels like S35VN. As everyone who reads my posts know, Z-wear is my favorite steel. It’s almost stainless, has exceptional fine edge stability, and holds that edge twice as long as simple carbon steels. It sharpens fine with good ceramic stones.

Lots of choices.
 
HSC /// said:
after initially being put off by the difficulty of processing Zwear, I'm accepting it more and more,

I spoke to a customer who has one of my Z wear gyutos and is a collector user,

He offered the following thoughts
1) Z wear has more bite to the edge than 52100
2) The bitey edge lasts longer 52100
3) much more corrosion resistant

The only downside is it's not as easy to sharpen as 52100, Zwear is not difficult, just more so than 52100 which is easy to sharpen.
Zwear can be sharpened on the same stones that you would sharpen carbon steel on.

but in general I prefer any laminated steel blade with a high carbon core.
Click to expand...

With simple carbon steels, the edge comes back nicely with stropping. With a-wear, I find little to no effect. Once it needs stropping, at about 6 months, just sharpen it. Carbon steel knives get stropped 10-15 times in my kitchen between sharpening.
 
While the x-wear steels are some of my favorites and i have made hundreds of knives out of them from kitchen to bush i have lately been making chef knives out of Starrett Redstripe HSS saw blades. I believe the steel is M2 and the last one i checked the hardness on was 64-65rc. While this steel does not have the same semi-stainless properties of the x-wear steels it takes a very keen refined edge with excellent edge stability for slicing chores. Every person who i have made a knife for out to these blades has been blown away and a few of them even have Zwear kitchen knives.
 
Seedy Lot said:
While the x-wear steels are some of my favorites and i have made hundreds of knives out of them from kitchen to bush i have lately been making chef knives out of Starrett Redstripe HSS saw blades. I believe the steel is M2 and the last one i checked the hardness on was 64-65rc. While this steel does not have the same semi-stainless properties of the x-wear steels it takes a very keen refined edge with excellent edge stability for slicing chores. Every person who i have made a knife for out to these blades has been blown away and a few of them even have Zwear kitchen knives.
Click to expand...

StormW has been using M2, and really likes it. I haven’t tried it yet.
 
I made a couple kitchen knives for myself, w2 and 26c3. I’d recommend using 26c3. I love it in the kitchen. Plus great hamon potential and it’s inexpensive.
 
23C3 is a great carbon steel for kitchen slicers. It is very close to Hitachi white, with a tad less carbon and a tad more manganese. It can be used at Rc 63-64.
 
26c3 if you have a temp control and parks50. It’s relatively cheap, performs very well, and gets a great hamon. I ordered a bunch to make Damascus for kitchen knives.
 
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Maybe the question to ask him is why he wants a carbon steel knife. If it is because he wants something easy to sharpen AEB-L will do him just as good but any of the simple carbon steels is going to make him happy. Be careful with 80crv2 because it can sometimes have issues for stock removal. If he wants edge retention switching up to the tool steels is going to be the best option. If you do stainless you won't have any issues heat treating them. They can still get very fine edges but edge retention is on a whole different level. M2 and the non PM versions of Z-Wear can work great and steels like Z-Wear and CPM M4 can be had in thin stock and are not that expensive and will probably be the highest performing chef knife possible.
 
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