Carbon Steel Sharpening

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marcinek

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Jan 9, 2007
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I just got myself a Sharpmaker and have been doing some practicing.

I did an old carbon steel Eye Brand fixed blade hunter, and it got crazy sharp incredibly easily. Figured I'd try my new hammered carbon steel Eye Brand mini trapper. After a lot of work, I got it sharp, but not as sharp as the old, pitted, patina-ed fixed blade.

What gives?

Is it that the old blade was not hammer forged?

If that is the case, is there any non-hammer forged carbon steel slippie blades out there? Case CV? Boker? 1095?

If I could get a slippie using the same metal as that old Eye Brand hunter, I'd be a happy knife guy!

Man, that got sharp easy!

Oh, thanks in advance, of course!
 
Carbon steel ? Anywhere from .50-1.00 % C. The more carbon the harder it is to sharpen !
 
Aside from the steel, they could have different edge angles. Search this forum for sharpmaker threads (there's a ton) and you'll find that matching the edge angle is a frequent issue. This is especially likely since you sharpened a fixed blade and a slippie. Edge angles on two such different blades could easily be quite different. Once all the edges are at the same angle, then you can be more sure that the difference is the steel.
 
Thanks for the info...

Does hammer forging produce a harder carbon steel than "non-hammer forging"?

What forging would be "non-hammer forging"? Drop forging possibly?

Or, is it possible that the carbon content of Eye Brand's steel has changed between them making the old fixed blade and the new slippie?

And, I guess while I have the ears of you folk, got any favorite carbon steels for ease of sharpening?
 
Forging won't make any difference. There is hammer forging and press forging .
 
knarfeng said:
Aside from the steel, they could have different edge angles. Search this forum for sharpmaker threads (there's a ton) and you'll find that matching the edge angle is a frequent issue. This is especially likely since you sharpened a fixed blade and a slippie. Edge angles on two such different blades could easily be quite different. Once all the edges are at the same angle, then you can be more sure that the difference is the steel.
Click to expand...

Knarfeng is most likely correct. The differences in forging (if any) would not affect your sharpening difficulties much. The edge angles most definitely will. Your first blade undoubtable matched the angle on your Sharpmaker; the second blade did not.

When the angle doesn't match, but you try to sharpen it anyway, you are in fact grinding a completely new edge, not just sharpening the old edge. This is called "reprofiling" - you may have seen it mentioned here.

The Sharpmaker is great for sharpening edges that match its pre-set angles. It is a very slow reprofiler of edges that do not match its own.
 
The following applies once you get the angle issue resolved and make sure the rods are actually cutting the edge and not the shoulder of the edge. One issue I've found on my Sharpmaker is that if the steel is relatively soft, say less than HRc 58, even the flats will produce a burr/edge roll. Try Jeff Clark's deburring method, described below, clean the stones to make sure you have a good aggressive, unhampered cutting surface, and use very light strokes, especially on the corners. Different people have different standards of sharpness too, so our point of reference may be different. The above problem bothers me still on a Benchmade TSEK in 440C and on any generic, nameless steel brand of kitchen knife.

The ceramic stones dont cut as aggressively as say waterstones or diamond, and the relatively narrow (compared to a 2+ inch wide stone) produces pretty high stress at the cutting edge. The softer steels will just bend over and not be cut, especially if the stones are worn (I imagine that will take years though), you are applying very high pressure, or if they are dirty/clogged.

For deburring, between grits/corners-flats, give a couple (literally 2 to 3 strokes per side) of high angle passes by having the blade parallel to the stone you're not using. In other words, use the opposite stone as a guide. This will give angle of 60 or 80 degrees, depending on which slots you use, but your only purpose is to take a few light strokes and get rid of any burr/deformed edge. By light I mean, set the sharpmaker on the kitchen table, and w/o holding it, stroke the blade against the stones. If it moves, its too much pressure. Jeff's deburring method can be found by doing a search in the toolshed forum.
 
Thanks again everybody!

I think Grampa hit the nail on the head...I used the 40 degree inclusive on the fixed blade and that must have been what it was already at.

I used 30 inclusive on the Eye Brand slippie and ended up reprofiling it. After giving it a couple more rounds on the "brown" rods, it came around. Its getting there. Very close.

So, I guess I inadvertently taught myself how to reprofile a blade! That's cool.

Thanks again, everybody!
 
This thread has concentrated on the Sharpmaker but I need a new twist. I have an EdgePro Apex 3 on order and a variety of old carbon steel kitchen knives. I tried the search function and kept getting a blank screen so that is why I'm asking the following:

I would like to reprofile several of the blades, especially a couple of chef's knives. Before I remove a lot of steel and wear down my 120 grit waterstone, is a 15 degree blade angle possible or should I be trying something not so aggressive. I suppose I could put an initial 15 on the blade and if that doesn't take an edge make a double bevel 18 or 20 degrees or so.

What have been your experiences?

Thanks,
Buzz
 
Buzzard...heres my take on it...I started practicing on the Sharpmaker on my chef's knife (Henckels)

I put a 30 degree inclusive edge on it. Its very sharp, and I think that if one sticks to meat and veggie (no whacking bones) chopping it will hold up fine.

However, the Sharpmaker manual recommends a 15 degree "back" bevel with a 20 degree microbevel (30/40 inclusive) for kitchen use.

I would imagine that would hold the egde even better...but I'm enjoying practicing my sharpening!
 
marcinek said:
Buzzard...heres my take on it...I started practicing on the Sharpmaker on my chef's knife (Henckels)

...but I'm enjoying practicing my sharpening!
Click to expand...

"Practicing" is the word. I've been using electric sharpeners all my life and presently have a Chef's Choice model 130. I have always thought the results adequate until I saw a couple manually sharpened knives in the scary sharp category. That was all it took to hook me. I have plenty of beater knives to play with until I get proficient.

I hope the Chef's Choice didn't damage the blades on my Forschner forged knives. :confused:
 
Buzzard,
I used 30 degree inclusive on my Henckels, but I noticed more chipping. I now always sharpen them at 40 degrees. It's faster, plenty sharp, and doesn't chip as much.
 
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