Carbon steel tempering times (1hr x2 vs 2hr x2?)

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Jul 2, 2009
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Ok time to ask a stupid question. When it comes to tempering carbon steels like 1060-1084, 80crv2, 52100, 5160 and 8670 I often see times listed as (1 hour 2 times / 2 hours / 2hrs 2 times) even for the same steel. What is the benefit to the 2hr temper 2x vs a 1hr x2 and does it matter? Normally I would not care but it seems this is often confused online, or people have just modified the times to their liking. Any and all impute would be great – thank you.
 
With low alloy steels like the ones you mentioned, I recommend 2 cycles, 2 hours each cycle. Is it true that shortening that time to one hour per cycle will work fine.....I think it is true, for these lower alloy steels. But for peace of mind, I always do 2 hour temper cycles. Tool steels and stainless steels I recommend 3 cycles, 2 hours each.
 
Then there's the Southeast Asian blacksmiths who edge quench and temper in one continuous process. Once heated, the Q & T takes just a couple minutes. Their knives work OK. Made from mystery metal or scrapbinium - old truck and car springs. I worked with an old guy over there 45 years ago. He knew what he was doing though I didn't at the time.

Like this guy right at the beginning, (Nice looking blade - straight with distal taper)

 
2hrs 2x is just cheap insurance for simple steels imo. Two one hour cycles is better than one two hour cycle. I don't think there is any measurable practical reason to do two two hour cycles.....yet I do. I guess it's to ensure you've gotten everything you can. Two one hour tempers likely accomplishes 99 percent of what two two hour tempers accomplishes.....in a custom, I don't want to leave anything on the table. Testing your process is the only way to know how well your process is working.
Not a stupid question at all, if it was a stupid question, it would have s simple answer ....it's an old question that has several answers, of which most aren't actually answers but opinions.

Of course there is an actual answer...but I don't know it. In my experience, the lead up to the temper plays a much bigger role in performance than the temper by itself...which makes comparing results of tempering among makers less than reliable.

Reaching the temp is more important than how long you hold it there, doing that twice helps a bit as well. Timing is the harder part to prove. Hit 800 for a split second on the edge and you've ruined your ht. Hit 500 for a split second.....I don't know how bad it is. Hit 450 for 5 minutes of a two hour 400 degree temper...again hard to say.

Read what you can, test what you do, you can't repeat what you read, but can repeat what you test, so you can at least be consistent.

I realize this isn't a helpful answer, but it's what a figured out asking the same question.
 
For practical metallurgy reasons, two 1-hour cycles is enough for basic knife steels. Steels with high alloy and stainless steels could need the extra time of two -2-hour cycles.

It is just more practical to always do two 2-hour cycles and not worry about it.
 
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