carbon steel Vs stainless steel

faca

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Hi I need your knowledge about.
I´m looking for a survival knife to use as a ruged tool cutting, chopping, pray, hammer....., cutting wires and nails.
I want a 5" to 6" blade lengh and I like the shape of Busses.
Questions:
Some brand with similar Busse shape but at lower price 100$.
Some brand with two cutting zones one for fine cutting and other to hard cutting woods or metal.
Whats better a stainless or a carbon blade? Why? What I get and what I lost from each?

Thanks for your attention.
 
Check out swamp rat knives at swamprat.com or their section in this forum.

Their Camp Tramp model would suit your need and they are pretty darn indestructible, plus they have a great warranty. Check em out

Mak
 
I am a fan of carbon steel. The Becker line made by Camillus uses an excellent carbon steel and are extremely stout knives. Also and excellent value.
 
Becker or Swamp Rat would be good choices, or if you want something cheaper, check out Ontario's selection.
 
faca,
Just as a general answer, the carbon steel blades are usually easier to sharpen than the stainless steel ones. Carbon steel blades usually require more care, for example I typically coat mine with a fine layer of Crisco to prevent rust. Obviously with stainless this isn't normallly necessary. As far as which holds the best edge, it depends on which type stainless is being compared to which type carbon, heat treatment, etc. When you cross-over into swords, there is a definite advantage to carbon steel for toughness.
 
faca :

I´m looking for a survival knife to use as a ruged tool cutting, chopping, pray, hammer....., cutting wires and nails.

There are few knives that will support this kind of use, so your choices are fairly limited. Swamp Rat comes to mind immediately as noted in the above. These are basically exactly what you described, a lower priced Busse.

Some brand with two cutting zones one for fine cutting and other to hard cutting woods or metal.

Ideally here you want a different temper and a different geometry suited to both tasks, specifically a very hard and very thin section, and then a softer and thicker edge. I can think of none off the top of my head, unless you are willing to go very different in shape from Busse. Himalayan Imports for example has small khukuris that will fit this role well. You are most likely going to have to do a little work on the blade yourself to get this degree of optomization.

Whats better a stainless or a carbon blade? Why? What I get and what I lost from each?

In general, stainless steels gain mainly corrosion resistance, with frequent significant positives to wear resistance and strength at the price of impact toughness (shock like a hammer hit), and ductility (flexibility).

-Cliff
 
In order to maintain the honor of carbon steel, it is explained more. Since stainless steel does not rust, as for the survival knife, ATS34, SLD (D2), and 440C are used also in Japan. However, in fact, the professional woodworker and the cook use carbon steel in Japan. It is regularly used by those who consider that care of a tool is important. It is called yasuki hagane(steel) as a higher class material than plain stainless steel. The carbon steel is reproduced the law materials of samurai-sword by the manufacture process of modernistic steel.The feature of the steel is low impurity of elements in spite of high Carbon steel, and it is cause that sharpness is praised as good.
 
If one of your primary concerns is that the knife not break then get a carbon steel. Stainless steel can be made to take as sharp an edge and resist wear as well as carbon steel, but when overstressed it snaps. With the best stainless steels the point of failure is high, but the failure mechanism is usually breaking unless you get a very soft steel. A laminated stainless like the scandinavian blades can be fairly tough and hold an edge well.

I would look for blades made from 5160 or 1084 for optimum ruggedness. It may be easier to find 1095 which is next best. Differentially hardened blades of more sophisticated alloys give you the toughness with better edge holding. The Swamp Rat knives would fall into that category.
 
I do not understand. Why has no one explained that baring the light sword from starwars there is NO such thing as he is asking about. He wants a 6z" blade that will chop like an axe, cut nails like a bolt cutter, skin like a properly shaped 4", oh, yes and can be used as a hammer.

Why play with his head, why not just explain that he needs at least three tools. A vice grip big enough to cut the nails he envisons (or a fencing tool) an axe large enough to chop the things he wants to chop and the original 5-6" knife to do all of the knife things that need doing.

Cliff, if I am off base here, I would like for you to tell me. A. G.
 
Ron Leuschen (Little Hen Knives) is starting to build a survival series of knives. He will work with you to build the features you want. Very affordable for hand forged blades. He uses 0-1 tool steel (high carbon). Check out his site, http://www.littlehenknives.com

-- Dizos
 
I like Cold Steel SRK (Survival Rescue Knife). Blade is what they call Carbon V and from what I can tell is a quite aggressive carbon blend, and is likely to be 0176-6. Edge holding is amazing, sharpening is easy, they're as tough as nails and look the part also.

SOG Government is also good and has steel pommel at end for hammer use, don't like SOG steel as much though. Both of these knives within your price range.

Only thing is protecting it. I use white lightning wax lubricant which is not messy and seems to work well (no rust spots yet!)
Just make sure give the edge a quick clean (don't worry about rest of blade too musch as it is teflon coated) and protect after use and you will be fine.

Even if you don't go for the SRK I would definately recommend a high carbon blend for Survival knife.

Cutting nails and wire might be pushing it a bit though.
 
A. G. Russell :

Why has no one explained that baring the light sword from starwars there is NO such thing as he is asking about. He wants a 6z" blade that will chop like an axe, cut nails like a bolt cutter, skin like a properly shaped 4", oh, yes and can be used as a hammer.

This is true, the best you can expect from a 6-7" blade is 50-75% of the chopping ability of a quality hatchet, you are not going to come near a full size axe. However this does give you enough chopping power to handle small and/or soft woods. Unless you want to actually fell trees, you can get enough chopping power in a decent sized knife for most outdoors work. Easily enough for shelter building, kindling and the like.

In regards to the nail cutting, it does make fine cutting impossible on the same area, as nails do require a decently thick edge to avoid rippling, as well as a fairly abtuse edge to avoid impaction. However if you do zone the knife in two different sections, which he did ask about, you can do both on the same knife. Leave the edge near the choil very thick and obtuse and make it fine out towards the tip. Sharpening is going to be difficult though with edge angle and thickness changing along the blade.

If you have to cut nails and your knife edge is rather fine, the best way is to use a mallet and score the nail, turn it, score it again, repeat until you have cut a notch all the way around the nail. Now try to break it in your hands. If you can't, go back to the scoring again. Use very light hits and a lot of strikes. This is far easier on the blade. If your knife is *really* fine edged like an opinel, then you can't score it much at all as the edge will ripple, so use a rock to mash it [against another rock] and then break it, and reshape the point on the rock.

A vice grip big enough to cut the nails he envisons (or a fencing tool) an axe large enough to chop the things he wants to chop and the original 5-6" knife to do all of the knife things that need doing.

This would be a much better combination than trying to get all of the same things in one knife. You always lose functionality and performance when you trim down the tool box. The more tools you can carry, in general the higher the performance, the more optomized you can make a knife (or a tool in general), the better it will be at that task.

A decent combination for the above would be say the TAC-11 from Johanning and the small forest axe from Gransfors Bruks. Leave the tanto point on the TAC-11 as it is NIB and it will handle any nail cutting, adjust the primary straight edge down to 15 or so degrees per side and it will cut very fine. The butt is very wide and flat and makes a decent hammer as does the poll of the axe. This isn't less than 100$ however.

-Cliff
 
If you get carbon steal (I'm assuming thats more then ATS34) then your going to have to keep it dry at all times. If your going with stainless steal it can take more outdoor elements but you may want to carry a portable/field sharpening system (i.e. a Doggie sharpener or a small whetstone).
 
I have to agree with the thought of using multiple tools. No one knife can do everything.

Personally I carry a multitool (Leatherman or Gerber) on my belt unless I have a pack on; then the multitool goes in my pocket or pack. My "survival" blade is a SRK from Cold Steel. I have had no problems with staining or rust on this blade. This blade went with me everywhere including maintaining cross country ski trails in the winter.

The third blade is an Ontario Knife US issue machette, which will be traded up to a Cold Steel Tomahawk. I love the machette, but it lacks the hammering face that I could need. Additionaly the tomahawk head can be packed away until/unless I need it, whittling a new handle with the SRK.

I also would have either a SAK or folding knife for camp chores, but this is being replaced by a neck knife (Cold Steel again) mainly for winter hiking and camping (my fleece and nylon pants didn't have pockets!!! I had to go back to my coat to get anything)

Once I have the money to spare, I might add a Trailmaster or similar Bowie, just 'cause it looks cool!

I've tried going out with just one knife (SRK or Multitool) but found I really needed whatever I left behind.

If you had a gun to my head and forced me to take just one knife to the field it would have to be my Gerber multitool.

Just my humble opinion.

Joe
 
Originally posted by faca
I´m looking for a survival knife to use as a ruged tool cutting, chopping, pray, hammer....., cutting wires and nails.

I believe that a Swamp Rat would take on all those tasks with ease, except for nail cutting. I don't think any knife in the world wouldn't chip if you tried to cut nails with it.
 
Every time a question like this comes up, I rack my brain trying to think up a survival situation in which I'd have to cut nails with my knife (or a nonsurvival situation, actually). I still come up with nothing, barring a really bizarre scenario.
 
Most of the time you chop nails, it isn't on purpose. In urban areas it isn't unlikely to cut into them working with scrap or around fences. Fences can also be severely ingrown and you can end up cutting into nails very unexpectly.

If you actually want to cut up a nail, it is very easy to do provided you use proper technique. The nail should be on a very rigid cutting platform, mild steel would be good, but a flat rock is much better than a piece of wood. Use the knife to chisel through the nail being very careful to hit the knife squarely on the spine and press the blade firmly into the nail.

The "cutting board" has to be metallic or harder because if the nail gets pressed into it, it will snap around the edge of the knife and exert a huge lateral stress and likely break a huge piece out of the edge. This is the same reason you want to make sure to hit the spine squarely with the mallet.

Yesterday, I used a few Deerhunters (very thin bladed, thin and acute edges knives), to cut up coat hangers, 2", 2.5" and 3.5" common nails with no edge damage to the knives. The nails were cut against the head of a hammer using a 22 oz framing hammer to drive them through [the 3.5" nail took less than thirty hits].

-Cliff
 
Many japanese people have not been satisfied that many people call stainless iron as steel.besides asian contry,Iron alloy is called as
steel.But in asian place,Steel means special hard steel like edge steels.Many japanese people dislike classification way of steel without steel hardness.
 
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