Carbon steel

R

RugerNurse

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Jul 13, 2019
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Being new to knives, I’ve read a lot of stuff online about steels (dangerous to do so). One site said that carbon steel maintain their edge longer than stainless. Why are all the super steels stainless then? Just better metallurgy advancements?
 
Not all of them...my perennial favorite CPM3V isnt...

I think carbon/low corrosion resistant steels are considered "entusiast" steels. Stainless is a quality that the general 90 % population prefers, hence they are more popular. Easier to take care of.

particle metallurgy definitely makes stainless steels much more competitive to carbon steel wear and toughness.

It's a good age of steel we live in
 
That's an old, old, old misconception. Back when your Grandfather was using knives to earn a living and save the free world, stainless steel technology was not as advanced as it is now, and most stainless steels could not be made as hard as carbon steels could, without becoming too brittle to use. So for a long while, carbon was definitely preferable to stainless for most uses, and it just became "general knowledge" that carbon is better than stainless. Some people still belive this, just like some people still think the 1911 is the best handgun you can buy. Maybe they were right in 1945, but things have changed a lot since then.

There has been a lot of progress in metallurgy since WWII, and knife steels have benefited from that. Now we have super steels of the stainless and non-stainless variety. There's a lot more to steel than carbon vs. stainless, and you'll have to find what works best for you.
 
Silent H summed it up well. My advice to new collectors is don't get to sucked into the steel type discussion. Get good steels, but most importantly get good heat treats with knives that you like. Don't worry about always getting the latest and greatest steel it really doesn't make a huge difference in actually using it in my experience so far. VG10 used to be a super steel, as did S30V, and S35V etc. There will always be something marginally "better" coming out.
 
RugerNurse said:
Being new to knives, I’ve read a lot of stuff online about steels (dangerous to do so). One site said that carbon steel maintain their edge longer than stainless. Why are all the super steels stainless then? Just better metallurgy advancements?
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The above posters make some excellent points. One last one I’ll make is that it may not be completely rational but many of us prefer carbon steel because it require input from us. Stainless steels require less maintenance. Carbon steels can be oiled (or not), you can build a patina (or not), and there is a lot to be said for the connection you make with the increased input.


I think of it like manual transmissions on cars. In the old days, a manual was always faster than a “slushbox” automatic. But things have changed and the new generation of automatic transmissions can shift faster than a human driver with a manual. But many enthusiasts (myself included) still prefer the manual because of the subjective experience of the drive.
 
All the above posts sum up my thoughts as well. Buy what you like from good makers and don’t worry about it. I personally like carbon steel because it’s fun (for me) to experiment with different patinas, they generally sharpen easily, and as said above, it’s more of an “experience” for me. And generally the steels I like are tough and not as pricey.
 
A hundred years ago it was likely true that "carbon" steels were better than stainless steels. That is no longer the case, most of the time. For example, 52100, a carbon steel known for its toughness and edge holding, is matched equally by Sandvik 13C26 aka AEB-L in every way, but the AEB-L/13c26 is stainless (and add 14C28N to that). Some tool steels have superior edge retention, like Maxamet and K390, but they are nearly matched by S110V and some others.
 
Both "carbon" and "stainless" steels cover a wide variety of steels with very different compositions and attributes, some even blur the line between the two. Any generalized statement like that shows the ignorance of the person who said it.
 
RugerNurse said:
Being new to knives, I’ve read a lot of stuff online about steels (dangerous to do so). One site said that carbon steel maintain their edge longer than stainless. Why are all the super steels stainless then? Just better metallurgy advancements?
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Cheap carbon steel generally beats cheap stainless steel. It's quite a bit easier to sharpen as well. That said, there are decent budget stainless' now which are pretty darn close to carbon in most regards. 12c27 comes to mind.
 
Much of it is personal preference. Some like carbon steel because they like a patina and the care that they put into their carbon blades. I'm the opposite. I dislike patina and prefer an easily maintained steel.
Also, ultimate edge holding doesn't interest me, I don't cut for long sessions at a time.
I prefer a steel that has a reasonable amount of stain resistance, is tough and easy to sharpen.
I really like Aeb-l, 14c28n, delta 3v and infi amongst others.
 
I think the non-stainless stuff rivals the stainless.
Just the non-stainless "super-steel" I have include ZDP-189, Cruwear, Rex 45, Maxamet... Maxamet is like, the most edge-holdy steel ever, I hear, better than S110V. Rex 45 sliced through solid brass bars. ZDP-189 is renown for being crazy edge-holder too, and is near-stainless, as is Cruwear, which doesn't hold an edge as long, but is super tough! Can take 22ish lbs of concentrated force. Also been right with XC75, the Opinel, Douk-Douk, and Otter-Messer carbon, and the Mora carbon, no rust that I couldn't easily take off, and that was only on the lesser ones. I bought my girlfriend a small knife with M4 steel which is supposedly the MOST rust prone, gave it to her with oil and she wiped the oil off, lol. She cuts oranges, anything, it's her work knife, she is not a knife-maintainer. Holding up just fine when I inspect it.

K390 is another one that people are loving too, and 10V is supposed to be in a class all its own.
 
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davek14 said:
Cheap carbon steel generally beats cheap stainless steel. It's quite a bit easier to sharpen as well. That said, there are decent budget stainless' now which are pretty darn close to carbon in most regards. 12c27 comes to mind.
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That’s true. 12c27 and the mora steels have been nice to work with. I’ve hammered my Kansbol through some wood without any damage. I don’t baton but wanted to see what it would do.
Speaking of batoning, why do so many companies make their knives so thick? One reason I like the Mora companion is that is thin. I guess the survival trend is still going on.
 
Lots of great points have already been made, particularly within Silent H's post.

One of the things simple carbon steel has going for it is ease of sharpening, and I believe that's one reason why many people still swear by it. It's so easy to maintain a really keen edge that it gives a really positive impression of the steel's performance. Regardless of what's scientifically accurate about steels, impressions always seem to matter more.

I once had an Applied Materials professor who would harp on how stainless steel was "crap" for knives, which is patently wrong. He must have been 90 years old and carried that old-school superstition. Thankfully his knowledge of Material Science was better than his knowledge of application, but I still think back on that with a sufficient amount of disbelief and cringe.

Now all that being said, I still like simple carbon steels and carry them regularly.
 
Good points made by everyone. I don’t know how steels compare to each other as I don’t have the experience but I enjoy most of the budget steels out there.
 
Silent H said:
You'll become a steel expert in no time.
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And your brain will be tired.

I’ve been blessed (or cursed) with a tendency toward being content with what I have that works for me, and about 75% of it is carbon steel/old tool steel. Rust doesn’t scare me. There’s probably improvement in some cutting tasks that could be gained by switching steel, but most times I doubt the cost/hassle is worth it.

That said, I did buy a new work knife this week, a Milwaukee folding hawkbill at Home Depot for 15 bucks. Not the cheapest of the Chinese stainless, but close. Within an hour of getting it home, I voided the warranty by regrinding both the silhouette and the edge. Part of that was file work on the fairly soft steel.

In 2 days on the job, I’ve stripped wire, opened plastic clamshells and scribed radiused hinge mortises with it. It has done those tasks well, so I now have 3 toolbox knives (2 carbon and 1 stainless).

It could easily be the other way around, and might someday. I guess in a nutshell, carbon or stainless isn’t that important to me, if I otherwise like the knife. I’m more picky about how it does the job.

Parker
 
Steel type is simply a point of reference for how the knife SHOULD perform, provided the geometry and heat-treatment are appropriate for its purpose. I prefer carbon steels for bigger blades, and stainless for smaller blades, not that it matters. I have large stainless blades and small carbon steel knives, even a Buck 110, and a 101, in 5160, tho some may not think of 5160 as a good steel for an EDC knife, because of its propensity to rust.

Even with budget steels, most performance deficits can be minimized by adjusting one's cutting technique, and most people never will never work a knife hard enough to approach its limits, whether stainless or carbon.
 
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