Carbon V vs M2

[bigox]

Could anyone tell me how these two steels would compare for a general use small fixed blade? I am not sure if I should buy a Benchmade 140hs/145hs or try my hand at finishing the 6.5 inch Carbon V blank I already have. It would be used for all the dirty work I don't want to use my folder for. It will not be used for chopping or prying. Is there any other knives I should look at that are under $100?

 

[Slim to None]

carbon v is espoused mostly for larger fixed blades, as it is fairly tough and ductile (relative to m2)

m2 is a high wear resistance tool steel, more suited to smaller high cutting performance blades. It's also used in hacksaw blades and the like, think cutting metal.

 

[Firebat]

I believe I've read on the forums before that "Carbon V" is simply marketing-ese for whatever carbon steel they happen to be using at the moment.

 

[mete]

Two very different steels. The carbon steel is a very good multipurpose blade steel. M2 is a high speed steel used for cutting tools [milling machine cutters etc ] and makes a specialty knife blade .It's more difficult to sharpen and is on the brittle side. Stick to the Carbon V.

 

[thebladeguy]

I have heard that the 140HS can take some pretty tough jobs. I mean not chopping or prying but you can do a lot with them. And they hold a edge a very long time. And all though M2 is harder therefore slightly brittle, the hardness BM heat treats it at is optimal for toughness so the M2 is tougher then D2, 154cm, S30v. It is a excellent choice for a slicer regular cutting chores knife. Carbon five is a good steel I have heard but it is better for choppers and the like. So if your knife will be for regular cutting chores then I would go with the 140HS. Because of the coating most people don't have problems with rust on their 140HS.

TBG

 

[destroythealter]

BM 140 all the way. Although M2 is a great steel you could always go with the 140BK if you wanted somthing a bit less brittle. However, BM does a great jobs with all their steels so I think you'll be happy with M2.

 

[frank k]

For a small fixed blade for real dirty work, get a Frosts Mora Clipper, they are offered in a choice of stainless or carbon steel and at less than $10, they are almost cheap enough to be disposable.

 

[STR]

Carbon V is the exact same steel Case used for years labeled the CV steel. Its a great steel and I really like it. The Cold Steel Master Hunter I own in it is second to none and gets quite a bit of use. Just saw blood the other day helping my neighbor clean up his deer in fact.

M2 is a very high wear steel. It is supposed to be one of the more difficult to sharpen ones too. I don't know if that is an issue with you or not but if so the Carbon V should be the preferred steel there. I have no problems at all keeping the CV steels I have sharp and they hold their edge quite well. I don't doubt that on paper the M2 is a better steel but in practical use the Carbon V is out there in more hands. Both of course have the problem of rusting easily. I don't think you can go wrong with a good high carbon steel like Carbon V for all around use. M2 seems to me to be a bit more specialized for smaller tools but I could be wrong.

STR

 

[Cliff Stamp]

M2 seems to me to be a bit more specialized for smaller tools ...

Yes, as it is designed and as it is hardened in hacksaw blades, at 65-66 HRC with a high wear resistance it is a pretty focused steel. However it isn't just a paper cutter, I have one and would not hesitate to use it to cut up sods, while the impact toughness is really low, there isn't really a need for impact toughness on cutting blades, choppers are a different matter.

However Benchmade significantly underhardens it and the toughness is *much* higher assuming they are tempering it low and hitting the peak. While M2 is brittle for a tool steel, it isn't compared to the high carbon stainless steels commonly used thus the frequent reports of the toughness of the HSS Benchmade blades. Of course if that was what they wanted there are better choices than underhardening M2 but that is still better than the stainless.

Ref :

http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/graphM2.jpg

The hardness Benchmade uses corrosponds to the peaks, hacksaw blades are at the far right where the toughness is minimal, however the strength is maximal. Alvin Johnson took a hacksaw blade and drew the hardness down and while it got much better at impacts, it was horrible at cutting, the teeth would break off much easier. Similar issues are seen with cutting knives. It depends on how it is used.

In regards to difficult to sharpen, it is one of the easier steels to sharpen as it has a very fine grain and doesn't tend to form a burr nor does it have the angle limitations of the stainless steels or the more coarse ones like D2. The machinability is low but that isn't of any consequence when sharpening, if it is then something is very wrong. It is also one of the steels with a very high maximum sharpness, but in order to appreciate that your skills have to be very high and your standards similar like Clark.

-Cliff

 

[Habeas Corpus]

Yes, as it is designed and as it is hardened in hacksaw blades, at 65-66 HRC with a high wear resistance it is a pretty focused steel. <snip>

However Benchmade significantly underhardens it and the toughness is *much* higher assuming they are tempering it low and hitting the peak. While M2 is brittle for a tool steel, it isn't compared to the high carbon stainless steels commonly used thus the frequent reports of the toughness of the HSS Benchmade blades.

I can't remember ... how hard are the Banchmade blades in M2?

Hans

 

[Cliff Stamp]

It is usually promoted as 60-62 in the knife descriptions, compared to 65/66 for max hardness of M2.

-Cliff

 

[Habeas Corpus]

It is usually promoted as 60-62 in the knife descriptions, compared to 65/66 for max hardness of M2.

Thanks. So my only knife in M2 (a custom made by Kevin Wilkins) is at 64RC in between the hardness Benchmade claims for their knives, and the maximum hardness of that steel. I don't think I have to worry about it being too brittle though ... I don't really think I'll ever use a small fixed with a 4mm strong blade and a cutting edge of only ~5cm for chopping trees ...

Hans

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Toughness drops off massively fast beyond the peak region, it is not a linear relationship. It also depends on how the 64 HRC was achieved, but moving off the maximum can cause the toughness to be reduced massively even with a change of just 1-2 HRC points. This doesn't mean however the knife is too brittle, I have a M2 blade at full hardness and it works fine, that is in fact optimal hardness for a lot of cutting work.

-Cliff

 

[bigox]

So it sounds like both should hold an edge well but the Carbon V will be stronger? I guess I will have to get some G10 or micarta and try my hand at finishing the knife. I have had the blade for about 15 years! Thank you for everyones opinions.