Carbon vs. Stainless for a pocket folder.

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michelle9

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I'm thinking about getting a carbon steel 1095 small lockback as a EDC in my pocket. I've searched and read up on patina, but as far as something that's going to sit in a pocket close to body heat for a good part of the day, would stainless be a better option?
 
I've had a few carbon steel pocket knives and have never had a problem with rust. But I live in CA which is pretty dry.

Frank
 
Not an option for me. I don't sweat alot, but having the folder in my pocket has caused rust to form along a Stainless steel (S30V) blade, I can only imagine what it would do to carbon.
 
I EDC a carbon steel folder without worries of rust. I cut food with it, too.

It has a patina, which I personally find adds character (I like things not to look brand new, but that's just me). I oil the blade - mineral oil seems to be the cheapest and most easily available, as it's in the pharmacy section of food stores.

When the blade marks up too much, I rub it down with a kitchen scourer.

I actually enjoy tinkering with it - sharpening and oiling it - so I am coming to terms with the fact that I don't actually want a super-steel. I may feel differently about a survival knife or something collectable, but I like cheap users.
 
Michele, get you a Buck 501 or 503 or 55 with 420 HC. It will be better than Case CV and 1095 in edgeholding, according to a recent test of a 501 here and you won't have to worry about rust.


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=459861

I would guess the Buck 420 HC is better than D2 steel too. The carbon steel looks cool but if edgeholding and rust are a concern, go with the Buck stainless. They have great lockbacks such as the one you are looking for.


If you want a superior edge holding EDC lockblade, go for a Buck 420 HC model and forget the rust buckets. These people around here think that carbon is better when it is not. Cheap stainless Buck outperforms carbon. Look at the above link.
 
I have an M2 folder with a 400 grit finish that has no rust problems. I just keep it clean and apply Tufglide every now and then.
 
I used to have a M2 and Carbon V folders that got problematic with rust during the hotter months. Winter, no problem......but when the humidity gets around 80% and the temp gets above 90.......then they became rust buckets. If you live in a climate where you don't sweat, then by all means get a carbon blade. However, I have been more than happy with D2 and S30V that I don't think I'll go back to a non stainless folder.
 
Silverdagger said:
I would guess the Buck 420 HC is better than D2 steel too. The carbon steel looks cool but if edgeholding and rust are a concern, go with the Buck stainless.
Click to expand...

I really have to disagree with you about the edgeholding of D2 vs Buck's 420HC.

No comparison...D2 from just about any manufacturer blows away Buck's - or anyone's - 420HC in terms of edgeholding.
And other performance parameters as well.

The 420HC is more rust resistant, however.
 
Michele, get you a Buck 501 or 503 or 55 with 420 HC. It will be better than Case CV and 1095 in edgeholding, according to a recent test of a 501 here and you won't have to worry about rust.


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=459861

I would guess the Buck 420 HC is better than D2 steel too. The carbon steel looks cool but if edgeholding and rust are a concern, go with the Buck stainless. They have great lockbacks such as the one you are looking for.


If you want a superior edge holding EDC lockblade, go for a Buck 420 HC model and forget the rust buckets. These people around here think that carbon is better when it is not. Cheap stainless Buck outperforms carbon. Look at the above link.
Click to expand...

We're all entitled to our opinions, but that doesn't always mean they're right. You don't know very much at all about knives/metallurgy judging by your post. In strength/durability/edge retention, knives with higher carbon content win. The advantage of stainless steels is pretty obvious. They're stain-resistant. Even common sense should tell you that carbon knives have their advantages, otherwise nobody would use them. :rolleyes:

To assume that all of these basic facts have been proven false by the post you linked would be pretty naive. There are a lot more variables in edge retention than the steel itself (heat treatment, edge geometry (the angles sharpened at and texture of the edge), and so on.
 
I'm thinking about getting a carbon steel 1095 small lockback as a EDC in my pocket. I've searched and read up on patina, but as far as something that's going to sit in a pocket close to body heat for a good part of the day, would stainless be a better option?
Click to expand...
Body heat isn't a factor, it's the moisture. Even so, I carried a carbon steel opinel for several years while working in the Arkansas forests - always damp or muggy, lots of rain, and I sweat a lot. Still it never had any trouble with rust. Just keep the knife clean and rub on some oil once in while and you should be fine.

If you spend a lot of time in the tropics or rainforest, or the knife will be exposed to ocean spray, stainless would be a good investment.

Happy shopping,
-Bob
 
Since I wrote the test about the Buck 420HC vs. CV and 1095 I'll chime in.

The Buck 420HC was superior mainly because of edge geometry.
Also, the 1095 and CV blades chipped.

I later reprofiled the 1095 to have the same geometry as the Buck.
It's close between them. I would still say the Buck is better in general.
The 1095 still chips so it may have had a bad heat treat.
Now that is all anecdotal... but if you take a look at Cliff Stamp's
website, you can see that the quality of 1095 varies greatly.

Also because 1095 isn't stainless, if it gets wet and is then
used for an extended period of time the edge will break down (i.e. rust)
whereas the 420HC edge would not.

Also, it's not an absolute that the knife
with the higher carbon content wins. There's much more to it then that,
esp. with the current strain of high alloy stainless steels.
Sure if given a 1095 v. a 1080 (or something lower in C) then
they are both simple steels and the higher C knife would win (1095).

If you take a look at some of the Sandvik steels like 13C26... although
carbon content is around 60% (don't quote me on that but I think I'm
close enough)... it would beat out the 1095 which has a higher C content.

Adding other alloys to a knife can increase the wear resistence, edge
stability etc... thus increasing the edge retention even without
increasing C.
 
I agree with you about the variation of steel quality, but there's also a large variation in the manufacturing process that can affect the quality of the blade. But with that said, if a carbon blade knife and a stainless blade knife are both made from quality materials, and treated and sharpened identically, the carbon blade will have higher wear resistance and strength.

There are a lot of nice stainless steels out there, but there is a lot of anecdotal evidence of chipping with them (such as S30V). We're all talking in general terms here, and there are exceptions, but I think you get what I'm saying. I totally disagree with Silverdagger's post that stainless beats out carbon, any more than carbon beats out stainless. If you want to clean and oil the knife less, get a stainless blade. If you want to sharpen it less, get a carbon blade. I personally don't like high carbon folders because there is a lot of room for moisture to get trapped and lead to serious rust, but I'd much rather have a high carbon steel fixed blade than a stainless steel one because I think fixed blade cleaning and drying is a small sacrifice to get the benefits of a high carbon blade.

I think something like D2 is a really nice middle ground because it's not overly rust-prone and it's also not soft or brittle. That would be a perfect steel for a folder in my opinion.
 
The carbon blade would probably have more impact toughness. I don't see where any comparisons can be made in wear resistance without knowing what the alloying elements are. A stainless blade would at least have chromium, meaning chromium carbide. Now O1 has a little bit of tungsten and vanadium, but then you could look at hss stainless like BG42, CPM420 -> S90V, or the new flavor of the month ZDP189 for some crazy wear resistance.
 
michelle9 said:
The two that I am considering are the Benchmade 440 Opportunist(S30V) and a Moore Maker 5100LB One Blade Lockback (1095)
Click to expand...

Carbon vs stainless arguments aside, the BM 440 is an outstanding knife. It is very light with great fit and finish.

Unless the knife will be constantly exposed to moisture (do you sweat heavily?) carbon steel is fine for a pocketknife. Even if it does develop pepperspots of rust (as mine do sometimes, even in dry Kalifornia) it is easy to remove them. The advantage of the simple carbon steel is that it is a lot easier to sharpen for the average person.
 
Blades can rust from body sweat?? You guys must be sweating a whole lot. I can't imagine my sebenza rusting from being in my pocket.
 
Applejacks said:
Blades can rust from body sweat?? You guys must be sweating a whole lot. I can't imagine my sebenza rusting from being in my pocket.
Click to expand...

Sweat is salt water. And your Sebenza has a blade made from stainless steel, whether BG42 or S30V.
 
I'm all for more carbon folders. I grew up on 1095 steel folders. Now, I'd like to see some real folders of the spyderco/benchmade/kershaw class made in such alloys as Super Blue, Vascowear ( blast from the past), more M2, M4, etc. I'm not going to be doing much chopping so I'd like to see them on the High side of the RC scale, whithin reason.

Someday I am going to get a Rockstead folder in their HSS. In the meantime my experiences with VG10, BG42, CPMS90V, ZDP 189 and a few other stainless knives has been pretty good. Outstanding in fact. I could imagine better though.

I scoff at rust.

How about a Spyderco Caly 3 or Stretch , CF, with 52100 at 59-60RC, flat ground etc. Would that be a slicer or what. Super Blue or F2/F8 at about RC 62? Oh, I can only dream.

BTW, my bank account is limited to med/high priod. folders, and my house ( and arthritis) keeps me from trying to make any more knives. Folders where way out of my skill level anyway. Joe
 
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