Carbon vs Stainless Steel

Awesome timing. I have never used stainless but have been thinking of trying some ABE-L. Would have Peter's heat treat it so that's no issue.
 
good stuff. interesting to see that "stainless is bad" was started by makers that forge rather than being based on facts and testing.
 
Great write up as usual.

I'm really interest to see how this two type of steel stacks up as knife blade, especially one that invented comparable application like 52100 vs 440c.

We known 52100 is generally harder, tougher and finer grain. Compare to 440c which has harder carbide (Cr) will 440c really hold better edge at abrasive media or as tough as its lower alloy cousin?
 
Great write up as usual.

I'm really interest to see how this two type of steel stacks up as knife blade, especially one that invented comparable application like 52100 vs 440c.

We known 52100 is generally harder, tougher and finer grain. Compare to 440c which has harder carbide (Cr) will 440c really hold better edge at abrasive media or as tough as its lower alloy cousin?
440C at lower hardness would likely win in a slicing edge retention test unless the edge geometry is thin enough for edge rolling to be the limiting factor.
 
Another great article. Much of this one was review for me, but it’s interesting to see how these old myths remain in many people’s minds.

My first customer and good friend used his dad’s 440c hunter as the benchmark for edge holding until I made him a 52100 hunter. The 440c was rc56-58, and the 52100 was Rc61. He REALLY likes z-wear now.
 
Great stuff. What I find remarkable is that (for me) A2 at 1% C and 5% Cr responds to cold bluing in seconds while 3V at 0.8% C and 7.5% Cr doesn't stain at all.
 
Another great article. Much of this one was review for me, but it’s interesting to see how these old myths remain in many people’s minds.

My first customer and good friend used his dad’s 440c hunter as the benchmark for edge holding until I made him a 52100 hunter. The 440c was rc56-58, and the 52100 was Rc61. He REALLY likes z-wear now.
That’s some pretty soft 440C. Pretty common though.
 
Nice article, but I think DE Henry started grinding Bowie knives in 440C in 1960
 
Good read as usual. the fun thing about AEB-L is that because it is a simple, old school steel AND plays like carbon steel, for a metal pounder like me, ti's almost like I'm not really cheating all that much by knocking out the odd AEB-L kitchen knife. :D
 
Nice article, but I think DE Henry started grinding Bowie knives in 440C in 1960
I did some reading on D.E. Henry using 440C and I decided that Hibben had a more solid claim to being first but I don’t remember why. @JDWARE had a couple references for when Henry began using it. If I can get scans I can add it to the article.
 
I did some reading on D.E. Henry using 440C and I decided that Hibben had a more solid claim to being first but I don’t remember why. @JDWARE had a couple references for when Henry began using it. If I can get scans I can add it to the article.
Gil may have been the first one to forge 440C in 1964 for knives, but Henry was grinding it in 1960. Henry did not forge at all.

Many years have past but Henry knives are out there with serial numbers, he was the first to use serial numbers as well, from the 60's. You would have to contact one of the DE Henry experts on his knives for clarification. He made under 500 knives in 40 years.

Murray Whites post here https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/d-e-henry-good-article-in-blade-july-2014.1171243/

"Ron Lockhart also created a nice bit of info that folks may be happy to read to learn more about one of the iconic knifemakers from the past.

" DE Henry
Legendary Bowie Knife Maker
Daniel Edward Henry
1924-1993

In the early 1950's, the Custom Knife renaissance was just in it's infancy with a handfull of makers like WF Moran, Bo Randal, Rudy Ruana, Scagel and DE (Ed) Henry, developing the sytles and techniques that furture knifemakers would follow. This ws the "pre-dawn" period of custom knifemaking as we know it today.

Henry actually makes his first knife in 1943 while a Marine stationed on a navy transport ship. Back home his interest continued to grow and by the early 1950's he began making his first Bowie knives --- later to be know as his "First Generation". These knives were influenced by the prevailing Bowie concerpts of the time, --- big, clunky, heavy blades with large brass lugged crossguards similar to the Randall Smithsonian Bowie. In all, 55 knives were numbered in this "First Generation".

By the mid 1950's, an important transformation occurred --- Henry met famed Bowie collector, dealer and authority Robert Abels in New York. He had the opportunity to view and study authentic Bowie knives from the 19th Century. "Nobody knew anything about Bowies in those days" were his own words.
This was the beginning of the Henry "Second Generation" of Bowie knives patterned after historical 19th Century Sheffield models. "He taught us what Bowie knife should look like" commented J.R< Edmondson, noted Bowie author and historian. Henry continually studied and researched his subject.

It is from this time that the Henry Legend would take off and the manyy "firsts" that he introduced would evolve. It is quite a list:
1. First maker to flat grind his blades (1943)
2. First to do a hand stin rubbed lateral finish -- no power buffing
3. First to serial number his knives. The only exceptions were a small number of prototypes and a fe wmade as his own personal knives.
4. First to grind 440C chromium alloy steel (1960)
5. First to use stainless for guards on his hunting knives.
6. First maker to be associated with the bowie knife and first to fully research authentic Bowie patterns.
7. First to reporduce Sheffield 19th Century Bowies with traditional scabbards mounted with nickel silver tips, throats and frog studs (1955)
8. First to inlay nickel silver escutcheon plates (1956)
9. First to use stainless for the mounts on his Sheffield scabbards (1976)

It was in this period that his hallmarks of quality and workmanship became fully realized. Every bevel was crisp, symmetrical and absolutely true. Every jucntion was meticulously fitted. He educated both collectors and fellow knifemakers about authentic Bowie knife patterns.

Hew viewed the knife as an art form unto itself and not a canvas for garish embellishment. He "transformed a craft into ta legitimate art form" and established the standards of qualtity that all makers would strive to emulate.

His knives were rich in the history of the 19th Century but their true significance would be their inflkuence in both design and quality on the history of 20th Century (and beyond) custom knifemaking.

By 1968, Henry had moved to his 3 1/2 acre home and shop in the foothills of California gold rush country on a high ridge overlooking the tiny community of Mountain Ranch. Here, in the solitude he enjoyed, his knifemaking would flourish.
In 1971, he introduced his "Third Generation" of Bowies patterned after pre Civil War American knives and named for American wildlife. Names like "Old Lobo", "Old Grizzly", etc.

In 1974, his "Fourth Generation" was begun, influenced by straight back "Rezin" style blades and those of the Philadelphia cutler, Henry Schively, featuring a false upper bevel cut on one side of the blade only. These Bowies, named after historical sites of Texas history include "Bejar", "San Saba", "Conception" etc.

By this time, his fame was well established and wait times stretched to 6-7 years with the final price based on market conditions at the time of completion.

The final series, his "Fifth Generation" arrived in the early 1980's and was patterned after th e19th Cenury San Francisco Bowies made famous by makers like Will & Finck and Michael Price with names from that period.

In all, his producion was limited to 466 knives make over a 40 year career. The time consuming hand work often exceeded 100 hours limiting the number of finished knives to 10 or 12 per year.

He was fiercely individualistic self taught, self styled maverick, often described as àrrogant, eccentric, ego centric and antagonistic`but he was also cpable of genuine warmth with those he respected and his wife and son whom he dearly loved. With health issues starting to become a problem, Henry retired from knifemaking in 1991 and after a battle with illness passed away in 1993.

His importance and influence both on the delvelopment of custom knifemaking and the understanding of historical Bowie knives cannot be over emphasized. The legend of D.E. Henry lives on in the classic knives he created in his ground breaking career,."
 
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I have updated the article with information on D.E. Henry.
 
In this article I covered the history of the carbon vs stainless steel debate, the differences between carbon and stainless steel, and where the debate stands today.

https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/09/10/carbon-vs-stainless-steel-in-knives/
I can't thank you enough for posting this. There is a lot of info in there that really nails down the differences between stainless and high carbon or tool steel. I still prefer O1 or W1 or 2 or some other high carbon steel as I just seem to get better results with them. I've also had very poor results with stainless knives that I've purchased. (Commercial, not custom) I'll have to give stainless another try and see what I can do with it.
Thank you again.
 
I think alot of folks who like to forge their blanks out would use Stainless Steels if there was an easy way to do it and easy way to heat treat in their forge. Heck, I would if I had the know how and even if I gave up performance by having shorter soak times and the like. (No heat treat oven on my end)

Pretending carbon steels are 'better' than stainless steels is pretty silly to me. It was a significant advancement in metallurgy.

I admit I am wary of giving knives to friends (and even family) that I made unless I know they would take care of it. Stainless would ease my mind alot! xD

Nice article!
 
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