So I'm a newbie to high carbon.... Always have owned stainless knives. I purchased a mora heavy duty and was wondering how I should care for the blade. I live in South Carolina so the weather isn't always rainy but I'll be using it for bushcraft in rainy cond. also , could someone please explain to me the idea of a patina? Specifically why you would want a "force patina". Thankyou!!
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Care for high-carbon?
- Thread starter n8swag
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Honestly, I don't do much maintenance with the non-stainless knives that I have. If I put anything on the blade, it'll be mineral oil, but that's rare. I use A2, 3V, 1095, L6, O1, and 52100 knives with very little care other wiping and sharpening. The blades will form a natural patina over time if allowed to. Forcing one doesn't always give a natural looking patina.
I'm close to your location and have not had to do anything specific to my carbon steel knives. I use 1055 and 1095 steel blades for yard work, and store them in the garage and have no issues with them. If you leave your blade wet it will rust. If you're soaked and can't or don't dry off, any carbon steel blade you're carrying will likely rust. A little rust on a carbon steel blade doesn't really hurt anything other than polish. The orange rust we all dread comes off with a scotchbrite pad.
The patina is a form of surface oxide. Its what forms when you cut things like steak, fruit, onions etc. The reason people force one on purpose is it will slightly protect the blade from more severe rust. Also, any carbon steel blade that is really used will form a patina eventually. Forcing a patina let the owner make sure it forms evenly. Many people consider patinas to be appealing. I have some blades in carbon steel that are almost black, with a shiny polished edge. I find that contrast appealing.
If you dont want a patina on a carbon steel blade, you'll have to polish it off. One pass through a steak will turn 1095 a peacock blue. I usually don't bother with polishing it off.
The patina is a form of surface oxide. Its what forms when you cut things like steak, fruit, onions etc. The reason people force one on purpose is it will slightly protect the blade from more severe rust. Also, any carbon steel blade that is really used will form a patina eventually. Forcing a patina let the owner make sure it forms evenly. Many people consider patinas to be appealing. I have some blades in carbon steel that are almost black, with a shiny polished edge. I find that contrast appealing.
If you dont want a patina on a carbon steel blade, you'll have to polish it off. One pass through a steak will turn 1095 a peacock blue. I usually don't bother with polishing it off.
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I'm also in South Carolina, right on the coast, where its significantly more humid and swampy. I use a lot of 1095 and simply keep my blade dry in storage and give it a quick wipe down with mineral oil each day. The fuss over maintaining carbon steel is way overblown.
Patina will develop naturally over time with use, no need to worry about that either really. The patina can actually protect your blade as it builds up, but really, it tends to be forced so people can get that well loved, well used look without....well....a lot of love or use.
Patina will develop naturally over time with use, no need to worry about that either really. The patina can actually protect your blade as it builds up, but really, it tends to be forced so people can get that well loved, well used look without....well....a lot of love or use.
David Martin
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I live in a dry area and have built several knives of 01 steel. These will began to turn black after the first slight use, something I don't care for. I can get this off using Flitz. Plus, they impart a metalic ordor and taste to food items I've cut with them. Hence, I don't care for them. This is not the case with D2 probably because it's close to a stainless. They take a finer edge on a 300 grit stone than most stainless and if it's a good stainless (even without vanadium) I find the stainless to hold its edge longer. So, I've moved away from them. A forced patina I've not understood. DM
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I've noticed a benefit to forcing a patina on 1095 (USA Schrade, as used in their Old Timer knives). I forced a patina on the clip blade of an 8OT stockman, but didn't do so on the other two blades (sheepsfoot & spey). The un-patina'd blades have been quick to develop small spots, if I don't stay ahead of them and keep those clean. The patina'd blade hasn't needed nearly as much attention. Also noticed, when doing further forcing on the same blade with vinegar & hot water, the previous patina just turned darker, almost black, while the areas of the blade without patina (the tang, mostly) showed some red rust. Once the patina's in place, the red rust seems to be held at bay, to a greater degree.
When forcing a patina, any red rust that develops during the process can be easily scrubbed away with some baking soda & a little water (mixed to paste consistency). The baking soda also neutralizes the acidity of the vinegar or whatever acids (fruits, etc.) are used to force the patina. Baking soda will also scrub away some of the really dark, black oxide, but leaves a very pleasant grey behind. The grey oxide that clings tenaciously to the steel is what will help to protect it.
Beyond the patina, I don't deliberately oil the blades. They get a little bit of light mineral oil left by WD-40 after I do a major wash (with dish detergent & hot water), after which I flush out residual moisture with WD-40. But, that's all the exposure they normally get, to any oil. Just keep them clean & dry (Windex wipedown), before putting them away at the end of the day.
I'll add that I'm also in a very dry climate (southwestern US), so I'm sure I don't need as much to protect my blades, most of the time. But even then, if they do get wet and/or dirty, I'm usually very quick to clean 'em up again.
David
When forcing a patina, any red rust that develops during the process can be easily scrubbed away with some baking soda & a little water (mixed to paste consistency). The baking soda also neutralizes the acidity of the vinegar or whatever acids (fruits, etc.) are used to force the patina. Baking soda will also scrub away some of the really dark, black oxide, but leaves a very pleasant grey behind. The grey oxide that clings tenaciously to the steel is what will help to protect it.
Beyond the patina, I don't deliberately oil the blades. They get a little bit of light mineral oil left by WD-40 after I do a major wash (with dish detergent & hot water), after which I flush out residual moisture with WD-40. But, that's all the exposure they normally get, to any oil. Just keep them clean & dry (Windex wipedown), before putting them away at the end of the day.
I'll add that I'm also in a very dry climate (southwestern US), so I'm sure I don't need as much to protect my blades, most of the time. But even then, if they do get wet and/or dirty, I'm usually very quick to clean 'em up again.
David
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I've never noticed the patina on carbon steel blades imparting any taste to foods. Possibly cutting onions might pass on that flavor, but the patina itself is a reaction between the carbon in the steel and acids in meat, etc.
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The patina itself is what helps to minimize that unpleasant taste (sometimes strong odor on both blade and food, too). The un-patina'd clean and bare steel is what reacts more strongly to the acids in foods (because more ions get exchanged between them, altering the character of both), and therefore produces the most noticeable 'character' to foods cut with it. Forcing a patina reduces the availability of those ions on the surface of the steel, so the reaction isn't as strong over time. With some steels, the metallic taste may never go completely away, but the patina tends to mellow it a good bit. I've noticed this difference when slicing grapes. The first couple or three slices with a 'clean' carbon steel blade will make a grape taste absolutely horrid, and it turns the fruit & juice dark blue or black, as well. Wipe the juice from the blade on a white napkin; the patina-stained color of it will scare you.
But, after the steel patinas a little bit, it's not quite so bad on subsequent 'tastings'. 
David
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David Martin
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David, This could be true as I've not cared for a patina colored blade to form. Hence, after every use I'd see this developing and clean it off. Thus, inadvertently perpetuating this offensive taste. So, I never made it to second base with this steel. My fault and resultant experience. DM
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With food, I'm generally inclined as you are, to use a stainless blade. The messing around I've been doing with the patina on my Old Timer is more out of curiosity, and has actually taught me quite a lot. And for other non-food-related tasks, I haven't found any blade that cuts as well, and takes as fine an edge (and as easily) as the 1095 of this Schrade. It's a slicing demon, and I just can't put the thing down.
These pics are from a little while back, immediately after I'd forced a 'pickle juice' patina on the blade. I soaked a small section of paper towel in some pickle juice, then wrapped it around the blade for ~2 hours (turned out to be longer than needed; produced more red rust than I'd expected). After cleaning it up with the baking soda treatment I described earlier, this is how it turned out. You can see the un-patina'd steel in the tang of the blade, for comparison. And the 'clean' edge on the blade is after some stropping on 1 mic diamond and/or green compound.
David
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David Martin
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The slicing part and it taking a fine edge I agree with hands down. The patina part I just don't think I'll ever warm up to. The knife you show in a Stockman pattern is the first knife I was allowed to own in 1966. I carried it for 10yrs.. It was ok, I could get it sharp enough to cut what I wanted. Then I discovered a folder with a stainless, locking blade and that knife was put aside. Then I really had to learn how to sharpen. DM
ISKski
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Like others have said, the hype surrounding carbon steels and maintenance is WAY overblown. people act as if their carbon steel knives are going to turn into dust in a matter of days if it sees water. I prefer to use carbon steel, and I do almost nothing to them except wipe it down after use on something wet, like food prep.
keep it dry and your good to go. Patina is also another thing that people are all nutso about. A patina is not permanent by any means. You can wipe your patina off with a wet paper towel if you want, it will change every time you use the knife. This knife below is nekkid 1084 carbon steel.
There it was fresh^
Here it is after 6 months of EDC - never oiled - naturally patinad
Here are a few shots of the course of its life:
keep it dry and your good to go. Patina is also another thing that people are all nutso about. A patina is not permanent by any means. You can wipe your patina off with a wet paper towel if you want, it will change every time you use the knife. This knife below is nekkid 1084 carbon steel.
There it was fresh^
Here it is after 6 months of EDC - never oiled - naturally patinad
Here are a few shots of the course of its life:
I electro etch a lot of my knives (mostly for aesthetics and the hell of it), but high carbon knives definitely benefit from a full etch. I'd recommend acid/ electro etching your knife to prevent rust and give it a nice look, but that's just me. A nice mustard and/or vinegar patina would also do nicely. Oil will also work, but I really dig the look of a nice patina or etch.
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I've noticed a patina affecting flavor sometimes - most often on my daily apple. Generally all my carbon blades are sheath knives - I treat the leather with melted wax and it'll keep it from rusting very well. Wipe it off well after use. In my experience sweat is far more troublesome than ambient moisture or water. If I start to develop a patina that affects flavors, or if I see any surface rust I polish it off by stropping/polishing it on some newspaper or regular copy or writing paper. Carbon knives do best when used often.