Carved handle Ang Khola [?]

[beoram]

Has anyone any close-ups of the carved-handle of HiI's Silver Mounted, Carved handle Ang Khola ?

cheers, B.

 

[Walosi]

The "Symbols and Carvings" page of Howard Wallace's FAQ has a carved AK, and, further down, my carved UBE (by the scabbard with the face of my buddy Chhepu). The patterns vary from knife to knife, but are intricate, very well done, and sturdy enough for use as a knife handle. I wouldn't take it camping or subject it to knocks and bumps, but it isn't so delicate that it should just lay there and look pretty. The Newari carvers are every bit the master craftsmen that the kamis are in steel, and Bhimsen and his family, who do most of HI's carvings certainly must rank among the best. Be very certain before you buy their carvings - they can lead you into Woodchuckery

http://www.tx3.net/~howardw/Khukuris/carving.htm

 

[Yvsa]

Originally posted by Walosi
I wouldn't take it camping or subject it to knocks and bumps, but it isn't so delicate that it should just lay there and look pretty.

Be very certain before you buy their carvings - they can lead you into Woodchuckery
http://www.tx3.net/~howardw/Khukuris/carving.htm

And another vote for using a very lovely knife for a mundane task. Just gives one a very special feeling inside.
And can make a nasty chore go much faster and with enthusiasm!!!!

 

[beoram]

Thanks for the direction Walosi . I'm still designing a hypothetical khukuri - imagining a hanshee-style with carved horn (?) handle (or wood, if horn doesn't carve as well).

Wondering if the Newari-carvers accept assignments, in the sense of suggesting a general image/theme for the carving. It's still all hypothetical, so I can imagine whatever I want at the moment . But I was thinking of some sort of representation of Kali (and Ganesha as well, ideally) - certainly images the carvers should be familiar with.

Cheers, B.

 

[Walosi]

Uncle can correct me if I'm off-base, but I wouldn't want to predict the outcome of a specific request. The UBE was a special order, and I had seen the AK pics, and requested "no animals, deities or figures - just a pattern". Uncle no doubt told them I was a frail old man who admired their work, so I got a Hindu demon, for protection, a right-turning conch for blessedness, and an unending knot for long life. The knot and the conch are from the "Eight Auspicious Symbols" of Buddhist lore. Whatever Bill did or did not tell them, they gave me what they thought I needed They put TWO Chhepus on the scabbard, so I suspect Uncle told them I was a loudmouth and needed double protection
The wood (Saatisal) handles are carved in much deeper relief, and much more intricately than any bone I've seen, and none of the handle carvings, bone or wood, have been of deities. I believe it is not considered "kosher" to grab Ganesh by the trunk to chop things or people, or whatever. Regardless of what I asked for, or what I expected, I was absolutely stunned by what I received. Uncle posted pics before he shipped the knife (one is that on the FAQ) but they were only a hint of the real thing.

 

[beoram]

Originally posted by Yvsa


And another vote for using a very lovely knife for a mundane task. Just gives one a very special feeling inside.
And can make a nasty chore go much faster and with enthusiasm!!!!

Yes, that's precisely my feeling. In general I want objects which are aesthetically-pleasing, but still fully-functional!

And on my imaginary Bura-hanshee-khukuri, as I said, I envisoned having Kali and Ganesha (& Shiva?) worked in somewhere - on the handle, worked into the leather of the scabbard? But I can't find very many 'carved' models of either.

Though here's a Kali murti I have:

& a Kali-tapestry I found:

for Ganesh, I noticed on the FAQ site, there's actually a wooden scabbard with a Ganesh image:

&, for good measure, here's a Ganesha murti of mine I quite like:

B.

 

[Walosi]

Ben, do you know the age of your Kali murti? I reminds me of Hillary and Bill, after the Monica incident

 

[Yvsa]

Ben I don't know for sure, but my Falcata scabbard has that same carving of Ganesha at the top front of the scabbard. Hanuman is below Ganesha and then there's two more dieties on the rear of the scabbard.
Walosi would know what they are, but I'm too lazy to find out.
One looks more like a prince holding what looks like a simple carved club, at the bottom is a fierce looking creature with 4 arms with what appears to be a club and a dagger in 2 of them and one holding something like a bowl and the other raised palm forward. He also appears to have large ears.

Anyway I got to looking closer and Ganesha isn't quite the same. The one pictured must have been the other scabbard. There were only two of these Falcatas IIRC.

 

[beoram]

Originally posted by Walosi
Uncle can correct me if I'm off-base, but I wouldn't want to predict the outcome of a specific request. The UBE was a special order, and I had seen the AK pics, and requested "no animals, deities or figures - just a pattern". Uncle no doubt told them I was a frail old man who admired their work, so I got a Hindu demon, for protection, a right-turning conch for blessedness, and an unending knot for long life. The knot and the conch are from the "Eight Auspicious Symbols" of Buddhist lore. Whatever Bill did or did not tell them, they gave me what they thought I needed

Yes, I've sort of gathered that all of the khukuri-workers tend to end up doing what they think best....but I'm still just imagining this khukuri in any case.

Originally posted by Walosi
The wood (Saatisal) handles are carved in much deeper relief, and much more intricately than any bone I've seen, and none of the handle carvings, bone or wood, have been of deities. I believe it is not considered "kosher" to grab Ganesh by the trunk to chop things or people, or whatever. [/B]

Well, I wasn't really thinking of grabbing Ganesha by the trunk , though he's rather good-natured, so I doubt He'd be too offended. But HI does do a deity-handle:-- the Hanuman khukuri--so I don't see any reason in principle why other deities couldn't be carved into a khukuri-handle. Plus, Ganesh is know as the 'Remover of Obstacles', which would be appropriate for hacking through a forest with a Ganesh-khukuri

I thought that many of the kamis & others were Kali-devotees....I suppose what I'm still envisoning is some representation of Kali. In any case....

I believe my Kali murti is relatively modern, but the design itself is old--Kali standing atop a prostrate Shiva. This image has various meanings.

cheers all for your indulgence, Ben.

 

[Walosi]

Ben, the Hanuman and Garuda handles are a puzzle to me in that respect. I have the Garuda, and it is another highly detailed Newari work of art. Garuda is a lesser figure in the Hindu heirarchy,but certainly not Hanuman. Still, I have never seen them carved as part of the design on a "regularly shaped" handle. Perhaps the full figure handle is a representation, and an honoring, while being part of a pattern is demeaning

My knowledge of kami's beliefs is limited to (again) the FAQ, but their patron is Sri Bishwakarma. The Hindu pantheon is so vast, and Nepal is such a mixture of Hindu and Buddhist, that many combinations can be imagined, what is allowed and restricted might change from one hilltop to the next.

 

[beoram]

Originally posted by Walosi
Ben, the Hanuman and Garuda handles are a puzzle to me in that respect. I have the Garuda, and it is another highly detailed Newari work of art. Garuda is a lesser figure in the Hindu heirarchy,but certainly not Hanuman. Still, I have never seen them carved as part of the design on a "regularly shaped" handle. Perhaps the full figure handle is a representation, and an honoring, while being part of a pattern is demeaning

My knowledge of kami's beliefs is limited to (again) the FAQ, but their patron is Sri Bishwakarma. The Hindu pantheon is so vast, and Nepal is such a mixture of Hindu and Buddhist, that many combinations can be imagined, what is allowed and restricted might change from one hilltop to the next.

Walosi, yes that could be, that a full-figure-handle is an honouring while 'just' being carved into a regular-handle is not.

Unfortuately, I can't think of any representation of Kali which would work as a full-figured handle. I can imagine a Ganesh-handle on the same lines as the Hanuman and perhaps, if a wooden scabbard was used, Kali could be carved into that? But I was really thinking of something in which Kali was somehow part of the khukuri itself.

thanks again for the discussion, Ben.

 

[Walosi]

A last thought (and you can tell it's past my bedtime ) Kali worshipers have, historically, a bad rap. Even though the khuks come out quickly and often in gambling sessions and after a bit too much rum, these people are not what you would call "mean minded". It could well be that the representation of Kali on a blade would be dismissed as "not good".

 

[Yvsa]

Originally posted by beoram
But I was really thinking of something in which Kali was somehow part of the khukuri itself.

thanks again for the discussion, Ben.

Well I don't know probably near what both of y'all do, but how about making one of Kali's arms into a ring that a finger could go through?
Her other arms could be carved flat, actually in relief on the handle.
It may be a fragile piece with an arm sticking out like that, but then it just may have possibilities.
What do you think about that?
Perhaps another arm could be carved into sort of a guard?
I think there's some real possibilities if one doesn't give up to quickly.
Wanting something definite is half the battle. Many times a craftsman will say no problem when a layman can't see beyond an
impossibility?

The Newaris are pretty dayumed good carvers and with a couple of suggestions there's not much telling what they can come up with.
Many of the old carvings done on the buildings in Nepal if done by Newari Craftsman or not defy explanation to our Western world minds, or mine anyway, after all I'm part Scot,Irish, German as well as ndn.

 

[beoram]

Originally posted by Walosi
A last thought (and you can tell it's past my bedtime ) Kali worshipers have, historically, a bad rap. Even though the khuks come out quickly and often in gambling sessions and after a bit too much rum, these people are not what you would call "mean minded". It could well be that the representation of Kali on a blade would be dismissed as "not good".

Well it's really a fringe of Kali-worshippers who have had a 'bad rap'. I think the normal Western perception of Kali thugees performing human sacrifice (re-inforced by the 2nd Indiana Jones film...) is a bit misrepresentative, for instance in my Kali murti, She is holding a severed head, but it's a rakshasa (demon) head, not a human-head. Kali is fairly 'popular' in India, in the east in particular (Calcutta is actually Kali-cut, city of Kali, or something like that), e.g. in Assam, Orissa, Bengal, &c. Besides, Kali is also another form Parvati and Durga. She is associated with death and darkness, but also with birth and regeneration (Shiva is similar in this). Many places she is known as Kalimaa (roughly, Mother Kali) and unsurprisingly has many of the attributes of 'Mother Goddess'.
Wearing an image of Kali on the body is said to ward off misfortune.

So the Kali thugees are really unrepresentative of Kali-worship. But I don't know what the Nepalese kamis think about any of this. I don't know very much about Hinduism in Nepal.

cheers, B.

 

[beoram]

Originally posted by Yvsa


Well I don't know probably near what both of y'all do, but how about making one of Kali's arms into a ring that a finger could go through?
Her other arms could be carved flat, actually in relief on the handle.
It may be a fragile piece with an arm sticking out like that, but then it just may have possibilities.
What do you think about that?
Perhaps another arm could be carved into sort of a guard?
I think there's some real possibilities if one doesn't give up to quickly.
Wanting something definite is half the battle. Many times a craftsman will say no problem when a layman can't see beyond an
impossibility?

Yvsa - that's a fabulous idea - or at least something along those lines - many thanks . I'm not sure of the 'ring' idea--that sounds a bit fragile, but something like that. The question is: how receptive are the Newari craftsman to suggestions about the main theme of a design?

cheers again, B.

 

[Bill Martino]

I tell the kamis, sarkis, sunars, and carvers (Nepali word for carver is too complicated and I can't remember it exactly) what I want and they give me what they want me to have.

It's just part of the deal.