Case CV Steel

supratentorial

supratentorial

Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
8,210
There are a lot of discussions about steel and how it holds up. There are a lot fewer practical examples. While not really intended as a controlled experiment... and it didn't really occur to me until I was finished... I think that this example shows that Case CV can handle work just fine.

I needed to ship out 90 pounds and had some 1/2" thick cardboard that I wanted to use to protect the goods and reinforce the box. I used the sheepfoot on my $50 yeller sowbelly to cut the slabs to size. Went through the 1/2" thick cardboard like butter. Cut out four pieces to line the sides of the box and three pieces to sandwich two cast iron plates. Afterwards the blade was still sharp enough to slice through a delicate leaf without tearing it. Put the knife back in my pocket without needing to touch up the edge.

Not a scientific experiment or an extreme challenge that ends in the destruction of the knife. But a real example of a practical use for a pocket knife.

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I try to avoid getting caught up in the type of steel my knives have (though I do avoid really bad ones like 420j) because in real world use your "regular" steels are more than up to the challange. When I do catch myself thinking about a certain steel, I remind myself about all of the vintage knives I have with unknown carbon steel that work great!
Thanks for the example:thumbsup:
 
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

I feel that the whole steel vs steel thing is way over done and over blown. Your use of your Case is a case in point, ( okay, I just couldn't resist) of how a knife either functions or does not. Case CV has been around a long time, and multiple generations have used it from Ranch and farm work to big city factories and warehouses with no complaints.

More important than what steel is used, is the blade geometry and design. Trappers, stockmen, barrows and such have been time tested and still here for a reason. Case knives are like the old S&W .38 special revolvers. There may be more modern guns, more high tech guns, more guns that get cover time on the gun magazine, but the old .38 revolver will still do a great job of defending the owner if used right. Case pocket knives with CV steel is more than good enough for most jobs a pocket knife will be used for.
 
In my opinion steel v.s. Steel only matters when it come to application. More of a "right tool for the right job" kind of thing. When using or buying Traditional knives it's more of the feel I get from the knife that matters, the mindset it gives you.
 
jackknife said:
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

I feel that the whole steel vs steel thing is way over done and over blown. Your use of your Case is a case in point, ( okay, I just couldn't resist) of how a knife either functions or does not. Case CV has been around a long time, and multiple generations have used it from Ranch and farm work to big city factories and warehouses with no complaints.

More important than what steel is used, is the blade geometry and design. Trappers, stockmen, barrows and such have been time tested and still here for a reason. Case knives are like the old S&W .38 special revolvers. There may be more modern guns, more high tech guns, more guns that get cover time on the gun magazine, but the old .38 revolver will still do a great job of defending the owner if used right. Case pocket knives with CV steel is more than good enough for most jobs a pocket knife will be used for.
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I hear you Carl, wish I had a dollar for every bad guy the old Model 10 put an end to their career
 
Thank you for the comments, guys.

If I were to do it over again, I probably would have used a straight edge so that the cuts looked a little better for photos--haha! I hadn't planned on photos and I just freehanded the cuts. It was really hot last weekend and I didn't want to spend a lot of time on it. It did the job. Package has already been shipped and delivered across the country (good job UPS!).

The edge on the knife was put on it by me... don't remember exactly when. It was razor sharp but it wasn't a freshly sharpened knife. I've been carrying it around.

My $25 Schrade USA 8OT with 1095 is also a great cutter. Blows my mind that there was no market for cheap knives with 1095 and now there's a small niche market for expensive knives with 1095. Goes to show that we need to appreciate and support these American brands if we want them to still be in business. Case, Queen and GEC make great knives and I hope they continue making traditional knives for many generations.
 
And the thing I love about CV (and 1095) is that, when it does start to get a little dull, a few light passes on the sharpening stone of your choice will bring it right back to hair-popping sharp again. Drop it in your pocket and get back to work.
 
Given a choice between CV and 1095, I would choose 1095. But CV handles typical jobs for a traditional pocket knife. If Case made the sowbelly with BG42 or S30V, I'd buy one. But I doubt it would cost the same $50. And I'd be buying it out of desire, not need.

Discussions of steel can get a bit misleading and sometimes there's a bit of hyperbole. In particular, I remember one claim that CV would dull just sitting unused for a couple of days--haha! That one not only defies logic but is disproven every day.

A harder steel might retain an edge longer, but it wouldn't have made any noticeable difference in this 1/2" thick cardboard cutting since I finished my work before the edge dulled. Afterwards, it was still sharp enough for the next task. Quite a bit of work can be done between sharpenings.

I don't cut 1/2" thick cardboard all day. I imagine a paper company uses powered machines to do it. Nor do I cut stuff all day long. To me a pocket knife handles odd jobs. It is convenient because it folds up and fits in a pocket. There are fixed blades and disposables and power tools for dedicated work and there are kitchen knives for the kitchen. The pocket knife handles everything else.
 
FYI, as recent as 2013 or so, Case has publicy stated, in posts by both Case's historian and the Case Collector's Club administrator on their own forum, that CV is 1095, perhaps with a little additional chrome & vanadium that 'plain' 1095 otherwise wouldn't include. They've also referred to it as 'modified 1095' in one or another of those postings (one dating from 2005, the other from 2013).

In an interesting tidbit in one of those postings, they also mention CV is 'several points higher' in RC hardness than their stainless (Tru-Sharp/420HC), though they don't say specifically what the hardness is. That was interesting to me, as I've sometimes felt CV to be very, very similar to Schrade's old 1095 in terms of ease of sharpening, edge fineness and edge holding, when comparing similar patterns with similar grind and geometry. I think maybe Case has had some issues with CV (& stainless) being somewhat weakened on factory-new edges, maybe due to overheating during edge finishing; but once they've been sharpened a few times, the steel at the edge has held up better, more closely comparing to what I've seen in my Schrade 8OT's edges.


David
 
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I'm pretty sure I've seen 55 and 57 for the hardness numbers of Tru-Sharp and CV posted here and there. Considering that Case steel was typically in the low 50s back in their hayday (post war to early '70s), it seems obvious that mid to upper 50s is hard enough to get the job done.
 
The 55-57 HRC range is what I'm used to seeing for Case's Tru-Sharp stainless specifically, in vendor catalogs & such. That range is also in-line with the spec for 420HC in general, by the steel's original specs (from Latrobe, it's original creator). So, as compared to that range for Tru-Sharp, I'm now wondering if CV is apparently skewed a bit higher than that. With the higher carbon content of 1095-spec'd steels (carbon almost double that of 420HC), it should certainly be capable of higher hardness, if the maker is conscientious enough to take advantage of that capability in heat treat.


David
 
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Maybe moderator Frank will chime in. I think he has done some actual readings of Case hardness.
 
It has always worked well for my needs, but then so does their Tru-sharp stainless. If I used a pocket knife a lot I might have a different opinion but I don't so I'm easy to please. :D
 
Here is one of Frank's tests: http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/case-tru-sharp-vs-case-cv.595750/

Here's a summary with more steels compared:
knarfeng said:
I have done side-by-side manila rope edge retention testing of traditional pocket knife blades.
Carbon V (aka Camillus 0170-6C aka "1095 CV")
1095 (both Schrade Old Timer and GEC)
Case CV.

There is a noticeable difference in performance between any of the true 1095 type alloys and that of Case CV.

That being said, I like Case CV. But it does not hold an edge as well as 1095 or 1095CV. The difference is noticeable to me in every day use, as well.
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A difference between Frank's manilla rope cutting and my 1/2" thick cardboard cutting is that our goals were very different. I was just doing something that needed to be done. Frank was testing edge retention.

David, I've seen CV described as modified 1095. I've also seen it described by Frank as "1085 with a tad of chromium and a tad of Vanadium". Either way, I think "CV" and "1095" may be the easiest way to differentiate. A graple is just an apple that is modified (infused with grape flavor) but "graple" and "apple" is an easy way to differentiate the two... easier than saying "apple infused with grape flavor".
 
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