Case CV vs. Queen D2

KarlMaldensNose

KarlMaldensNose

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Feb 3, 2009
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Hey guys, I'm new to the traditional forum and to slipjoints in general (I got hooked fast:D). Right now all I have is a Queen Country Cousin Sodbuster with D2 blade. I don't have any experience with Case CV carbon steel and was wondering how it compares with Queen's D2 in the major categories, such as edge holding, ease of sharpening, corrosion resistance, etc.

I'm well aware of Queen D2's reputation as a bear to sharpen, and my own experience bringing down thhat crazy obtuse factory angle and putting an actual useable sharp edge on the Country Cousin confirmed that reputation. In my opinion it was well worth it, though. I haven't had to sharpen it yet and it's going on two weeks of regular daily use. I'm wondering what I'm in for with the Case chrome vanadium.
 
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You'll like the Case CV.It is much easier to put a razor edge on and holds it well.Typically Case puts thinner profiles on their knives and they often come razor sharp.(not always)
 
Extremely different steels.

Case's CV steel is pretty soft, 54-57 Rc. Made to be easily sharpened to a fine edge. Being a carbon steel it'll outperform a stainless of similar hardness (such as their TruSharp), but it's not going to win any manilla rope or cardboard cutting competitions. The amount of chromium is negligible as far as stain resistance goes. If you get something acidic on it like vinegar or jab it into an apple you can literally watch it change colors before your very eyes. Keep it oiled though and it'll stay shiny. Many people "force" a patina
on their carbon steel knives (stick it in a potato or apple overnight, or rub mustard all over it). The patina is a discoloration/oxidation, but it's not rust. It actually prevents rust. Some people like the way it looks, some don't.

Queen's D2 is very different. I think they harden it to 59Rc, give or take a point. D2 has huge vanadium carbides which makes it very wear resistant. That means it holds an edge very well, but is difficult to sharpen. D2 is considered "semi-stainless" because it has a significant amount of chromium (10-12%), but not quite enough to be considered "stainless" (generally 13% Cr and higher). Unless you're neglecting it or trying to force a patina on it, it'll stay shiny with minimal upkeep.

A Case Sodbuster Jr with yellow delrin handles and CV steel is only about $23. You might find a used on on eBay for even less. Good to try out and experiment with without breaking the bank if you don't like it.
 
The Queen D2 is:
hard to sharpen, and I don't think gets quite as sharp,
holds an edge MUCH better,
and is very rust/stain resistant (not stainless, but close)

The CV I have found to be:
easy to sharpen, and gets sharper than D2 in my experience/ability.
gives up it's razor edge pretty easily but a strop brings it right back if you don't dull it too much between.
and will rust/stain if you don't look after it.
 
Queen's D2 gets extremely sharp, and will hold it a good, long while (but it takes more work; diamonds are a big help). If you're lucky enough to get a decent factory bevel from the start, then touching up the edge isn't that big of a deal. Again, diamonds work great for this. Otherwise, if you have to reprofile, it'll take a while. The Queen's blade is thicker, and a flat grind. That means much more metal to remove, than if you did the same to the Case (thin, hollow grind). Combine that thick, flat grind with the D2, and it'll take MUCH longer to get it reprofiled. The results are worth it.

I have a Country Cousin that I've been using to try out different sharpening methods. Started out freehanding on a DMT hone, which put a very good edge on it. Then, more or less on a whim, I ended up convexing that bevel using wet/dry sandpaper (up through 2000 grit) on top of leather. I'm VERY, VERY pleased with the edge on it now. I'll take a pic or two, and post 'em here.

For what it's worth, I don't have any of the (current generation) Case CV knives. But, having read a LOT of their praises here on BF, from many whose opinions I respect greatly, I have no reason to doubt it's very good. I think, if you just want a blade that's easy to sharpen quickly to a fine edge, it'll do you just fine. The D2 is great, but can be somewhat daunting if you're not quite comfortable with sharpening anywhere beyond light touch-ups.

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Gotta love that handle "KarlMaldensNose". I chuckle every time I read it. The man had quite a proboscis.

Personally, I would think it through and decide what I was going to use the knife for in its daily chores. As do most, I have several CASE knives with their vaunted CV. Great stuff. Sharpens easily, holds an edge well, and has been a standard for many years. It and its sister steels are certainly what I grew up on and they are proven performers.

However, I sweat so much here in S. Texas during my daily construction chores that my CASE knives will get rust flecks in a day from my salty sweat. It isn't unusual for my knives to be soaked with sweat for 8 - 10 hours a day, so if I miss a day or two or daily oiling it can be a hassle. I have had that problem with carbon steel knives for almost 50 years now, so it isn't anything I'm not used to dealing with.

It has generously been pointed out there that I can oil them to help prevent that, but since starting in construction in '72, I found that to be only a partial solution. Once used during the day, the oil is gone from the surface, and sweat, rain and other things keep it wet all day and the rust begins at that point.

That being said, since it is cool winter weather I have some CV in my pocket now, and my 1095s/10XX knives are back in the rotation. I do love some good carbon.

But D2 works best for me during summer 90% humidity days of 100 degree temps. It is almost maintenance free except for sharpening. I have noticed on my Queen Barlow that after 3-4 days of riding around in the sweaty pockets it will get rust flecks. But these are easily removed with a pencil eraser.

As far as the Queen models go that I have in D2, they all arrived sharp enough to smear butter. OK... if the butter had been left out to room temp. They all required some serious sharpening, but as mentioned above it was worth it. That D2 works great, an I have found over the last couple of years of serious pocket carrying that I need to sharpen my D2 work knives less than half the amount I do my 1095s. And once sharp, they are a breeze to maintain. I sharpen on a diamond rod, so I don't give sharpening much of a thought. And I really like the fact that if I drag in late, worn out and sweaty from a hard day's work, I don't have to do any "preventative maintenance" on anything, including my knife.

I also prefer the D2 for my hunting and camping knives as well. Animal guts, food prep, getting caught in a pop up rainstorm, washing it in the creek, and a long sweaty hikes don't bother it at all with zero maintenance. It does hold an edge better for me, so routine camp chores rarely dull D2. With D2 in my pocket, I don't even take a sharpener on overnight or two day outings.

Think about what the knife's task will be and that should help you quite a bit when making a decision.

Robert
 
Hey Guys...

I can´t tell ya anything about the D2 from Queen. But the CV works very well, easily to sharpen like the 1095.
But it was a good question beenig asked for. Because now I know that the CV is a pretty, pretty good steel.
Thank you, guys!

Greets from the bavarian forests...
 
CV is great steel and if you're ever caught away from your sharpening gear (say out in the field) and need to touch-up an edge, the CV is what you'd want to have with you as you can touch it up easily.
 
On the whole, I prefer the CV due to the fact that it is far easier to sharpen etc.

D2 is undoubtedly good steel but it's taken me considerable time on diamonds to get it anywhere near decent, a lot of time in fact. That said, my latest Queen the Copperhead actually arrived reasonably sharp! took a 'mere' 20 mins or so to improve it. A lot is talked about D2's fabulous edge retention, alright I'm not a metallurgist or extreme tester of metals but I question this. What kind of tasks are people submitting their pocket knives to or are expecting?? Maybe it stays sharp longer but it will take a deal of work to get it back to where it was. Swings&roundabouts? It is not corrosion free, slicing fruit and veg will grey it quite a lot-no attractive patina like carbon will offer. I like the Queen knives that come in carbon actually, or the Schatt stainless variant. Sharp on arrival, easy to get it back. I buy Queen knives for the pattern not the wonders of the steel, or, potential wonders that is.
 
I love Case's CV, I don't have any experience with the other's D2, but I do have experience with Benchmade's D2.

I like the D2 that I have experience with. But for everyday use, I would have to say that I like the CV more. For sure easier to sharpen, and holds an edge really decently for me. Opening blister packages and plastic bags are the norm for me.

Here are a couple of pictures of my Large Stockman in CV, it's the only CV knife that I have, so experience is limited here too.

Notice the patina on the large blade-that was from cutting an apple once. Literally five minutes later, it looked like that. I like the polished look better, so I don't really cut fruit anymore because I also don't use food-safe oil.

Notice the side of the knife without the case emblem, look at the sheepsfoot blade right under the front of the nail nick. The little bit of patina right there is from the blade rubbing. I don't mind the blade rubbing or anything like that, but I didn't cause that, so you may want to oil well from the package.

100_0251.jpg

100_0252.jpg
 
I dont usually get into these debates. But i've used both steels a lot. Both are good steel. But I have to give the edge to case cv over queen d-2.
 
Edge holding, no question D2
Ease of sharpening clearly Case CV
Corrosion resistance, D2 take a very slow patina

If you want a easy razor sharp but does not hold for long, then Case CV
If you want a very good edge that holds for a long time, then D2
 
neeman said:
Edge holding, no question D2
Ease of sharpening clearly Case CV
Corrosion resistance, D2 take a very slow patina

If you want a easy razor sharp but does not hold for long, then Case CV
If you want a very good edge that holds for a long time, then D2
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What Neeman said.
 
If you can get a good edge on D2, you're set. By good I mean say 85% of what you cab get on CV. It really takes a wicked edge that'll stick around for a while with paper or jeans stropping. Very old school.

Do yall wear away your cv and 1095 blades a lot faster?
 
MarkPinTx said:
If you can get a good edge on D2, you're set. By good I mean say 85% of what you cab get on CV. It really takes a wicked edge that'll stick around for a while with paper or jeans stropping. Very old school.
Click to expand...

I am not sure if it is the blade geometry of the particular CASE 1095s I have or not, but they do seem to get a bit sharper. It may be my imagination, but still it seems that way. When examining my CASE knives, they all have thinner edges, and some a bit hollow ground like my old CASE large copperhead.

My Queen knives in D2 are all flat ground from edge to spine, and the edges are not that thin. I have to reprofile them to get them to be better slicers. On the other hand, my JYDII comp (D2 edge) has a thin grind on the edge and it will get as sharp as any knife I own. So I don't really know if it is the difference in D2 heat treat makers from Queen to Kershaw, or the blade grind making a difference, but there is a difference in knife performance.

It seems to me that D2 works better with a bit of a toothy edge, and as noted, it will get a bit dull then just stay where it is for a long time. It goes from razor sharp to really sharp, then stays that way.

MarkPinTx said:
Do yall wear away your cv and 1095 blades a lot faster?
Click to expand...

Personally, I haven't noticed that at all. I have some old CASE knives (like the above mentioned copperhead), a couple of Bokers, and even two Puma folders that are 1095 that I have had for 30 - 40 years. All have been used constantly, and sometimes pretty hard.

With proper care, the 1095 wears like a champ. I won't live long enough to see anywhere near the wear on those knives I see from improper sharpening technique. I think a knife in 1095 from a reputable maker should last about 3 lifetimes of use.

Your mileage may vary....

Robert
 
Robert, Midnight Flyer makes an important point.

A lot of old or not so old knives in carbon are worn down prematurely by ferocious and poor sharpening 'techniques' The Grinder Horror is responsible for a sorry state of affairs.
Even D2 would suffer under such a regime....
 
MarkPinTx said:
If you can get a good edge on D2, you're set. By good I mean say 85% of what you cab get on CV. It really takes a wicked edge that'll stick around for a while with paper or jeans stropping. Very old school.
Click to expand...

+1 :thumbup:

That's the thing. D2 can be a bear to 'get a good edge' initially. But, once you've finally apexed the edge, it just seems to keep getting sharper, the more you work it. The higher I take the polish on it, the more wicked sharp it seems to get.

The Country Cousin I pictured in my earlier post, is one of my best sharpening efforts thus far. Many of the knives I've convexed so far, have great working edges, but there's been a little bit of trade-off as far as hair-popping sharpness goes. The Country Cousin is one of the exceptions. It still shaves easily, and the 'jeans stropping' you mention seems to keep taking it up another notch.
 
mnblade said:
That's a really handsome knife ..... except for that name and cowboy etching on the blade. :( Why do they do that!? :confused:

-- Mark
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I'm sort of on the fence with this one, insofar as the blade etch goes. In general, I'd rather not see excessively large/gaudy etches on blades. But, considering this one is a $25 knife (or so), the 'Country Cousin' etch sort of fits the 'working' character of the knife. I can live with it. And, if not, I think a little wet/dry sandpaper would eventually take it off. It's actually a little 'dimmer' on my pictured knife now, after a little of the rubbing I did with the sandpaper when I was convexing it.
 
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