case hardening

Bruce Bump

Bruce Bump

Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Messages
9,910
Has anyone done case hardening before? I want to do sone guards and butt plates for some period peices. I heard to pack them in a airtight container with leather and bones, cook at 1500 degrees for several hours. Any help is appreciated, Bruce
 
Hey Bruce
Did some with 1018 and leather.
I used heattreat foil as a container. Chopped the leather and just put the steel in the center, piled the leather around it and folded the foil up. Put a pin hole in it or it will pop as the leather cooks.
Put it in the forge at around 1900f until it stopped breathing fire from the pin hole.
Got a case .025 on a .125 strip.


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Edward Randall Schott

Let the future tell the
truth and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments.
The present is theirs, the future, for which I really worked, is mine".
Nikoli Tesla EdwardRSchott@aol.com

www.angelfire.com/ct/schottknives/
 
Bruce,
I've been wanting to try this also but haven't rounded up all the materials yet. Brownells has some good info on it, if you call them and request the info they'll send it to you. I found a good article on Case Hardening and other finishes (at Barnes and Noble)in "Gunsmithing at Home" by John E. Traister.
Hope this helps.
Jon
 
I cant find my book that describes the process but I thought it said airtight. Everyone keeps telling me it will explode. I made a 1/4" thick metal box with a bolt on lid. If that explodes I will be dead! I plan on putting it in my even-heat oven for a controlled temp. I hope it works and doesnt carburize the heating elements. Bruce
 
Bruce don't do it you need a vent pipe that will go outside the furnace.
The smoke will burn in the furnace and really make a mess.
Bin there done that.
1/8" pipe will do it.

------------------
Edward Randall Schott

Let the future tell the
truth and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments.
The present is theirs, the future, for which I really worked, is mine".
Nikoli Tesla EdwardRSchott@aol.com

www.angelfire.com/ct/schottknives/
 
I worked for a gunsmith and we did a lot of restoration work on gun parts and such that included color case hardening. We would take the parts and put them in a Terra Cotta pot for plants that had no holes in the bottom. First we put charcoal from nutshells on the bottom, then filled the pot the rest of the way up with nut shell charcoal and seal a lid on with fire clay and let it dry. We used the smallest pots possible, or just used 2 of the things that looked like lids but actually go under the pot. We would then put the parts in a furnace and heat to around 1600 and hold for a couple hours, then knock the lid off and pour the parts in the quench. Got a good case that way. The quench he used gave the colors, he never would tell me what was in it but had beautifull greens, blues, reds, purples, etc. We did it all pretty much as airtight as we could get it, I think that as full as we packed the pots that the oxygen got used up very quickly, and remember that the seal would easily pop to release pressure . I did some Bowie guards and pommels when I worked there and they looked great on the period pieces. Good luck!

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www.simonichknives.com
 
So you say it can be airtight. i could try it in my burnt out bbq in case it does blow and ruin my nice oven or smoke damage it. I wonder what kind of quench your old boss used. Maybe oily water would give some colors. I like the clay pot idea too.
 
Swordsmith Randall Graham laid the whole shebang out for me awhile back. If sobody wants it, hit me off-list and I'll dig it up & send it on.
Basically he used a pipe with a wired on lid, packed the pieces in bone charcoal, and brought up to about 1350F & let soak for a half hour. Pull it out, cut the wire & quench in agitated water (he used one of those aquarium pumps with a round stone).
Adding leather scraps is s'posed to give you colors.
Harry
 
HArry
Thats the way I do it to. Bone charcoal, container 1350 for an hour or so . Then quench the part and all in a vat of aggitated water. The vat should be big enough for the parts to be cool by the time they hit the bottom.

The aggitation can be done with a aquarium pump in the water to create bubbles.

The credit for this goes to Keith Kilby .
He did a demo at Batsons a few years ago.


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Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
NEW WEB SITE TAKE A LOOK!!!!!!!!!
New projects and pics to look at !!!!
 
Harry's right on about the air.
Brownells also told me that aerated water is the key to good colors. They suggested running a copper tubing in the quench tank with the end pinched and a series of holes drilled in it, run air in it for a half hour before quenching but turning the air off just before you quench. Everything I've read suggests water as the quench medium.
I haven't heard of a risk of explosion before, seems as long as the medium is charred and you have an airtight seal that all your doing is transferring carbon but then again I've never tried it before.
Be careful.
Jon
 
Well, here's something a little bit different to add to the collection. It's called Super Quench. I haven't tried it yet, but some folks seem to swear by it. Got it off of the knifelist.

Don't quench steel over 50 points of carbon in superquench or it will shatter. Some recommend 40 or lower. Low to medium carbon steel will harden anywhere from 43 to 62 Rockwell C.
It's basically a Soapy Brine Quench.

The formula:
5 gallons of water
24 oz. Blue Dawn dish soap (used to be 32 oz. before they concentrated it)
5 pounds table salt
8 oz. Shaklee Basic I
Quench at 1,550 degrees F. (cherry red but below orange) After cooling rinse with water so it won't rust up later. Stir it well before use, because the ingredients tend to settle out some.
Shaklee Basic I is proven to work as a wetting agent. Other substitutes have
worked (such as Amway, Jet Dry, etc.), but may not work as well as the Basic I. Don't use Kodak's Photo Flo. It is not biodegradeable and dumping it is not good for the environment and it may be somewhat hazardous.
Super Quench is handy to make tools cheaper and quicker out of milder steel, usually of a temporary nature.


[This message has been edited by MaxTheKnife (edited 11-30-2000).]
 
Hi Darrel!
I pulled up a couple of other threads I saved on that topic, and one mentioned itty-bitty (1/8") pieces of burnt leather give more greens and purples, and heating to 1650 or so gave a deeper hardening (and I won't tell who wrote that thread either Darrel, even if they try and beat it out of me!....uhhh.....OOOPS!)
wink.gif

Harry
 
Thanks everyone who posted. I now have enough info to case harden. I cant wait to try it. I will try to post a picture some day. Bruce
 
Yup Burnt leather , bones, titanium,
wink.gif

Colors..
I like colors Harry..
Great thread!
Harry got any pics of knive you have done?


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Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
Happy Holidays!
 
Darrel-
Working on new website.....last provider folded his tents, stole off into the nite, & took my site with him :'(...should have something up by the first of the year (start off the REAL Millenium!!!)
Still playing starving farmer by day.....attempted knifemaker by nite
wink.gif

Your knives get more beautiful all the time!
Harry
 
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