Casting & Stabilizing

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Dec 24, 2014
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Anyone here do their own block castings or stabilizing? I'm looking to get into especially casting resin blocks. But while I'm at it, would like to setup to stabilize also.

I'm looking into a pressure pot for casting. I've watched many videos and with this style pot, works great. But could I also create a vacuum chamber with this same pot? If anyone has any experience with this please chime in.
 
Corey - I could write a long section on stabilizing, but it would mostly be repeating what's on the Cactus Juice website:

https://www.turntex.com/help-center/cactus-juice-stabilizing-resources

I've stabilized with Cactus Juice using a vacuum chamber with "ok" results. There's just nothing that beats K&G, WSSI, etc for stabilizing. It seems that K&G/WSSI can stabilized most anything - Cactus Juice is more limited in the woods it will work with. Work great on a piece of leather, corncob, or spalted pecan. Unless you've got a decent vacuum pump, and can rig up a good vacuum chamber for almost no cost - you can get a lot of wood stabilized by K&G for what it will cost to setup for home stabilizing.

Now, "IF" you've already got the equip and l(like myself) just wish to try it for the learning experience, then it's worthwhile to play with.

Ken H>
 
I "do" both and that's in quotation marks because while I'm set up for it, I've done very little so far. Yes, just about anything used for a pressure tank can be used as a vacuum chamber, however, generally speaking the things you do under vacuum you want to be able to see, hence the plexiglass lids on a lot of commercial vacuum chambers.

For example, when stabilizing, you want to see the bubbles stop to know that the voids in your material have been infiltrated by the stabilizing resin, or when casing silicone, you want to see the bubbles stop before shutting off your vacuum for the silicone to cure.

I have a free vacuum pump. The stabilizing I've done has been in small mason jars with a lid that I put a barbed fitting into for my vacuum line.


Pressure casting I use a 2.5 gallon paint pot that I got from work because we switched to airless paint guns. That's relatively simple to do. Alumilite is a great product. My biggest failures have been not getting the items I'm casting around clean and dry enough before casting them, and I recently figured out, by making my molds too small. For example a pine cone casting, I was using PVC pipe with a plug in the end for the mold. I stuffed the pinecone in, and mixed and poured my alumilite. But the mold was tight around the pine cone, and effectively trapped air/prevented the alumilite from flowing like you would want.

I'm only doing it because it's literally cost me nothing but what I paid for the Alumilite and Cactus juice. I do think it's easier to get a good cast scale than it is to get good home made micarta type laminate, which I've since given up on.
 
Thanks guys. So a true stabilizing is a PITA? I really am looking into casting. To make stuff like this
lb-ds-1_5.jpg
. Or like you said, pinecone, corncob, or whatever I think would look cool. :) Would a pressure pot be good for that? Or does it still need to be stabilized afterwards. Alumilite is what I'm looking at for the resin, just wanted to see what else would work, or not.
 
Another question, I've read also that some people use legos for molds? When using that much pressure and/or vacuum nothing will leak through the legos? I dont know what else is used for a mold. Just looking for something thats 2 x 2 x 5 with an open top.
 
So for molds you can use one of those white cutting boards that you get at Walmart, just cut it up and screw into whatever size you want. Make sure you get tight seams. I use modeling clay to fill the seems a paint pot would work great as long as you plumb it right. Biggest thing is to make sure everything is clean, and your resin is well mixed. Any sawdust or residue will cause the bubbles in your resin. I would get a small paint mixing bit from Home Depot, they are like 3 bucks. Also, you do need to still stabilize the wood, as the alumilite will not penetrate the wood. Good luck and post pictures! Here is some casting I recently did
26b5afa2ce20a575d10a966e5ecfb74a.jpg
0265d140566a0083cf69dd4d6cf17117.jpg
fbc5e19505fd32d7b4009651ed9803ba.jpg



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colu, I've done a good bit of casting and a lot of stabilizing--I have had good luck with Cactus Juice on all types of wood, basically you name it and I have had good luck stabilizing it with Cactus Juice. As to casting I've used exclusively Alumalite, and am experimenting to the day with stuff I'm adding to castings. You can find at least one video on YouTube about a guy who uses a vacuum chamber for his casting instead of a pressure pot--I've actually done both and have had good results both ways. I actually prefer the vacuum chamber. For molds, I basically ordered some UMHW from McMaster Carr and cut it to the sizes I wanted, and then predrilled and screwed the pieces together with #6 x 3/4 sheetrock screws (stainless) As another poster mentioned make you molds where the material you are casting fits in it with some room, and then the Alumalite will flow as you want it to. I have built a ton of blanks for Pen-Making and it is really cool to me some of the things you can come up with--I recently discovered Faux Granite powder, and it makes a really cool casting, I think they will look really cool as pen blanks or knife scales.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions--and oh yeah I recommend Exotic Blanks http://www.exoticblanks.com/Home-Stabilizing-Solutions/
as a source for your stabilizing equipment--he has his own version of the large tank--I think it's called the beast, and has good vacuum pumps as well, plus Ed really is a great vendor, he usually answers his calls directly, and is extremely helpful.
 
colu, I've done a good bit of casting and a lot of stabilizing--I have had good luck with Cactus Juice on all types of wood, basically you name it and I have had good luck stabilizing it with Cactus Juice. As to casting I've used exclusively Alumalite, and am experimenting to the day with stuff I'm adding to castings. You can find at least one video on YouTube about a guy who uses a vacuum chamber for his casting instead of a pressure pot--I've actually done both and have had good results both ways. I actually prefer the vacuum chamber. For molds, I basically ordered some UMHW from McMaster Carr and cut it to the sizes I wanted, and then predrilled and screwed the pieces together with #6 x 3/4 sheetrock screws (stainless) As another poster mentioned make you molds where the material you are casting fits in it with some room, and then the Alumalite will flow as you want it to. I have built a ton of blanks for Pen-Making and it is really cool to me some of the things you can come up with--I recently discovered Faux Granite powder, and it makes a really cool casting, I think they will look really cool as pen blanks or knife scales.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions--and oh yeah I recommend Exotic Blanks http://www.exoticblanks.com/Home-Stabilizing-Solutions/
as a source for your stabilizing equipment--he has his own version of the large tank--I think it's called the beast, and has good vacuum pumps as well, plus Ed really is a great vendor, he usually answers his calls directly, and is extremely helpful.

Thanks a lot Fish. I will definitely be contacting you sometime soon once I get everything rolling. Theres just something cool about making your own handle materials. :D
 
So for molds you can use one of those white cutting boards that you get at Walmart, just cut it up and screw into whatever size you want. Make sure you get tight seams. I use modeling clay to fill the seems a paint pot would work great as long as you plumb it right. Biggest thing is to make sure everything is clean, and your resin is well mixed. Any sawdust or residue will cause the bubbles in your resin. I would get a small paint mixing bit from Home Depot, they are like 3 bucks. Also, you do need to still stabilize the wood, as the alumilite will not penetrate the wood. Good luck and post pictures! Here is some casting I recently did
26b5afa2ce20a575d10a966e5ecfb74a.jpg
0265d140566a0083cf69dd4d6cf17117.jpg
fbc5e19505fd32d7b4009651ed9803ba.jpg



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what is the honeycomb material? thats awesome!
 
Will it work? Yes. Would I do it? No.

Its a matter of calculated risks. I sell a lot of wood, and it would be very bad for my reputation if even one of them failed on a knife, which is why all my woods are done by K&G. If you are making knives for yourself and friends/ family where a handle failure is not as big of a deal, it may be a safer bet.
 
I agree with you guys to a point. But at the same time, the setup I plan on doing is the exact same setup, materials, etc, that another person uses to cast these exact type of things, and they hold up perfectly on a lathe. As he turns out duck calls and pens with them. I don't see why they wouldn't be just as sturdy as any other wood handle, expecially a non stabilized wood.
 
I agree with you guys to a point. But at the same time, the setup I plan on doing is the exact same setup, materials, etc, that another person uses to cast these exact type of things, and they hold up perfectly on a lathe. As he turns out duck calls and pens with them. I don't see why they wouldn't be just as sturdy as any other wood handle, expecially a non stabilized wood.
Do you plan to sell knives made this way?

Chuck
 
Do you plan to sell knives made this way?

Chuck

This is the real question. Honestly, I would consider using home stabilized wood on my own knives because I know only I would be responsible for it. But when your name is attached to a product someone else has, and that could fail, thats where it gets iffy. I dont want a product I sold to fail because of any fault of my own.
 
This is the real question. Honestly, I would consider using home stabilized wood on my own knives because I know only I would be responsible for it. But when your name is attached to a product someone else has, and that could fail, thats where it gets iffy. I dont want a product I sold to fail because of any fault of my own.

I get that to a point, but would you sell a forged knife?

In my industry what we're talking about are "special processes." Welding for example. Things that can't be tested without destructive testing. So I sell a part with a beautiful 3/8" fillet weld. It looks fantastic and meets all visual weld inspection criteria. No undercut, leg and throat dimensions are right on the money, no craters, perfect wraps and terminations. And then that weld fails in the field because it had almost no penetration.

Hand forging is another one. You forge a knife, meaning you heated it to forging temperatures and hit it with a hammer until it was the shape you wanted it to be. When you're done, do you know that it will not fail because of a crack you couldn't see? Or that you only ever heated it between X and Y degree temperatures? Or that you didn't make a couple hammer blows trying to stretch out a heat, at too low a temperature? You can normalize, you can RC test, you can break a coupon and look, but you don't know that internally, everything is perfect with that forged blade. Then we'll talk about damascus...

But you can establish processes for your practice. And that's how we control our 3/8" weld. I can't destroy it to test it, but I can establish parameters like voltage, amperage, wire speed, filler material, shielding gas, travel speed, transfer process, etc, etc. And I can weld a number of coupons using those parameters, and cut them and etch them and break them and bend them until I know that a weld that passes visual weld inspection, welded within the established process, is a good weld with a high degree of certainty.

Whether they do it consciously or not, that's what the better knife makers are doing in their shops when it comes to forging based on their experiences. "If I heat like this and hammer like that and quench like so, with this type of steel I get a knife capable of doing X task."

So why would stabilizing wood or casting Alumilite be any different? I wouldn't sell my first one. I wouldn't even put my first one on a knife. I would cut it and break it and bend it until I had a good idea that yes, this process I did or part I made is suitable for the task I wish to use it for, when done by these parameters I've set.

Honestly, the wood or scale failing would be the least of my worries on a blade I forged from a layered billet that I pattern welded myself.

But there's a risk with any choice, and given your business model I understand 100% why you've made the decision you have made. But taken to an extreme there is no point to any of us making or selling anything, because that's the only way to completely eliminate failures caused by yourself. Even with perfect processes and documented procedures, you will have a failure eventually. That's life. And statistics. But mostly life.
 
I use a cactus juice system for the spalted rainbow poplar I have growing all around me. Cactus juice works as advertised on soft woods such as poplar. It won't work well on dense oily woods.

Regarding failure. Sometimes we overthink things. I offer a guarantee. If wood breaks or cracks under normal use, I will rehandle the knife for free. I haven't had to do that yet. I sell knives with unstabilized woods too.
 
I get that to a point, but would you sell a forged knife?

In my industry what we're talking about are "special processes." Welding for example. Things that can't be tested without destructive testing. So I sell a part with a beautiful 3/8" fillet weld. It looks fantastic and meets all visual weld inspection criteria. No undercut, leg and throat dimensions are right on the money, no craters, perfect wraps and terminations. And then that weld fails in the field because it had almost no penetration.

Hand forging is another one. You forge a knife, meaning you heated it to forging temperatures and hit it with a hammer until it was the shape you wanted it to be. When you're done, do you know that it will not fail because of a crack you couldn't see? Or that you only ever heated it between X and Y degree temperatures? Or that you didn't make a couple hammer blows trying to stretch out a heat, at too low a temperature? You can normalize, you can RC test, you can break a coupon and look, but you don't know that internally, everything is perfect with that forged blade. Then we'll talk about damascus...

But you can establish processes for your practice. And that's how we control our 3/8" weld. I can't destroy it to test it, but I can establish parameters like voltage, amperage, wire speed, filler material, shielding gas, travel speed, transfer process, etc, etc. And I can weld a number of coupons using those parameters, and cut them and etch them and break them and bend them until I know that a weld that passes visual weld inspection, welded within the established process, is a good weld with a high degree of certainty.

Whether they do it consciously or not, that's what the better knife makers are doing in their shops when it comes to forging based on their experiences. "If I heat like this and hammer like that and quench like so, with this type of steel I get a knife capable of doing X task."

So why would stabilizing wood or casting Alumilite be any different? I wouldn't sell my first one. I wouldn't even put my first one on a knife. I would cut it and break it and bend it until I had a good idea that yes, this process I did or part I made is suitable for the task I wish to use it for, when done by these parameters I've set.

Honestly, the wood or scale failing would be the least of my worries on a blade I forged from a layered billet that I pattern welded myself.

But there's a risk with any choice, and given your business model I understand 100% why you've made the decision you have made. But taken to an extreme there is no point to any of us making or selling anything, because that's the only way to completely eliminate failures caused by yourself. Even with perfect processes and documented procedures, you will have a failure eventually. That's life. And statistics. But mostly life.

Well said, I send my stuff to k&g because it is easier and costs the same if not less. I have used cactus juice before and have gotten great results. It may not be completely on par with k&g but I think it makes a handle plenty strong enough. If someone is wailing on a blade rather than taking care of it, I wouldn't use any wood at all anyways. Like has been said, if you are selling it with a guarantee, like I do, the risk lies with the maker


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