Castle Dinners

Coldwood

Coldwood

Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
2,718
My apologies if this has been over-done before. My premise is that my home is my castle, my fortress, all my stuff is here, and here is where I'm going to hunker down until they pry me out with a front-end loader. This is in a TEOTWAWKI situation of course :D I'm not going into the woods or on the road.

Friends have told me that they look for food on sale and then buy a case of it (might be canned Brussel sprouts) to put away against the day of doom and despair. It's food, in their mind, so it has to be good for survival and we don't want to spend too much, do we?

I say that attitude is all wrong. Instead, stock up on stuff that you have tried before and that you really like. Survival will be hard enough without trying to force down strange food. Go for the comfort foods.

For me, canned foods are what I'm stocking up on. They're sealed, pre-cooked, no water has to be added, a shelf-life of 100 years unless the can breaks it seal. Then it gets tossed, not messing with botulism.

This thread was prompted by my trip today to Sam's Club to look for a folding card table. They didn't have any, so after looking at cameras and watches, I decided to roam the bulk food aisles. $80 later I come out with a shopping cart full of six-packs of spam, chili, corned beef hash, tuna, salsa and black olives (can't have too many).

I'm a big fan of canned meats: sardines, tuna, spam, corned beef, little and big canned hams which are pretty good. I see meat as a primary survival food.

If the power goes off for good, the first thing we will do is cook and eat everything in the freezer. Then go for the canned goods.

You really don't need heat or water to eat canned goods.

My next trip, I'll stock up on fruits and vegetables: fruit cocktail (who doesn't like that?), peaches, pineapple, tomatoes, etc. Cooking oil, corn oil, olive oil. Then dry stuff like oatmeal and Bisquick (you can make breadstuffs all day long with Bisquick, a fire, and griddle or Dutchoven). Canned nuts, dried fruit. All of this stuff gets shrinkwrapped before put into storage, to keep away moisture.

For years, my mother gave us a packaged fruitcake every Christmas. Those all got carefully shrink-wrapped and put into the larder. Might be good for trading someday. :D

What say you all?

Edit: This isn't my first attempt at this, I have stuff in storage in the basement that needs to be cycled out and used up.
 
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Just make sure you cook dry beans thoroughly to avoid poisoning! I learned that the hard way and unless you like long rides on the porcelain bus it's pretty miserable! :barf:
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Just make sure you cook dry beans thoroughly to avoid poisoning! I learned that the hard way and unless you like long rides on the porcelain bus it's pretty miserable! :barf:
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Huh, thanks for that tip 42 :thumbup: I've cooked a lot of dried pintos, black beans, black-eyed peas, mixed beans, never had a problem...yet. But I always cook them very well.
 
Spam; breakfast of champions!

All kidding aside, canned goods are great. Like you say, no fuss or muss warming up a can of something. We just finished a nice quiet period of being snowed in by back to back blizzards, but we were well fed the whole time, in spite of being without power when the storm took out the power. A can of Dinty Moore tastes as good heated on a sterno stove as a regular stove.

I like to keep a good supply of canned food on hand for both general use and for emergencys.

And Spam and eggs are one of my favorite things for breakfast. Fry the Spam till well browned and put some easy over's right on top. Yum yum!:D
 
For years, my mother gave us a packaged fruitcake every Christmas. Those all got carefully shrink-wrapped and put into the larder. Might be good for trading someday.
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or, if you get enough of those god awful little bricks you could reinforce your castles walls. hahaha.
 
1. My wife makes a fruitcake that I actually crave! I've eaten fruitcakes made at home and commercially and never found one worth the calories but my wife's is great!

2. As a practicing Food Scientist, I can think of no compounds in dry beans that should poison you or put you on the toilet. The usual thought process by the uninformed is, "I ate beans at noon and now it's 2:00 PM I'm on the toilet constantly". Food poisoning comes from bacteria, not undercooked foods. Pathogenic bacteria, or their toxins, take some time to work through your system before you feel the effects. This is usually 4-12 hours depending on the bacteria and the amount of it you ate. The chances are that whatever made you sick was something you ate the meal before you ate the beans. The amount of cooking to get a dry bean even to a state you could crunch through it would be enough to kill any bacteria on the outside. So your food poisoning was more likely the chicken salad you had for lunch that had sat on your kitchen counter for four hours!

3. The thought that you can store and eat food for an extended emergency that you don't eat now is incorrect. The idea that "if you are hungry enough, you'll eat anything" is a "PROVEN" misconception. I was involved with feeding studies as an Army Officer and found that the stress of an emergency will cause you to eat the unfamiliar food for a short while, then you will eat less and less of it, lose weight and health, and hit a steady state of reduced nourishment. I'm not saying you won't continue to eat the strange stuff but you will eat less and less till you are compromised. Therefore, store the stuff you already eat – even if it's in a form you are not currently using. In other words, if you like fresh apples, you'll eat more canned applesauce and dried apples slices than you will eat whey protein powder.
 
Another advantage of canned foods is that they may be opened and eaten straight out of the tin, without heating.

Spam, corned beef and baked beans all taste just fine eaten that way, though the taste of cold baked beans does improve with some garlic granules and dried, mixed herbs.

I've eaten virtually every cooked, canned food there is, without heating, right out of the can, with no problems whatsoever.
 
I do the same thing. I like to concoct new recipes using canned goods. Some look awful yet taste great!
 
chicken-can-1.jpg


:D:D
 
While you guys are stowing away canned goods and whatnot , don't forget about some other important items.
If you have a significant other , store up some of the brand she uses of feminine products and I'm not talking eye makeup :D Toilet paper is another thing one can always use extra of , ever try to wipe with a phone book page or a leaf ?

Spices are easy to store and cheap if you catch em on sale , those little salt and pepper packs at the fast food joints can make a meal a wonder in the field or at home.
Coffee anyone ? Dunno about the rest of you but life without coffee would really suck.
A sealed can of coffee lasts for years , who cares if it tastes a little 'old' your still drinkin while others are not.
Bottled water , if you do not have a well or other pure source of private water. If the SHTF you can probably count on utilities taking a dump , including the eventuality of your water source.

These lists can go on and on , essenitials are in the eye of the beholder.

Before I met my lady I planned on holding out in my apartment until it was time to leave , now though we plan to jam to her folks ranch in the mountains.

Food , water , bullets and TP are all great , try to have a well planned plan as well and a backup in case that fails.

Tostiggg
 
Up the ante and learn to can at home. I have a canhouse chock full of good eats grown or killed and preserved by myself. Good skill to have. Chris
 
bruce said:
1. My wife makes a fruitcake that I actually crave! I've eaten fruitcakes made at home and commercially and never found one worth the calories but my wife's is great!

2. As a practicing Food Scientist, I can think of no compounds in dry beans that should poison you or put you on the toilet. The usual thought process by the uninformed is, "I ate beans at noon and now it's 2:00 PM I'm on the toilet constantly". Food poisoning comes from bacteria, not undercooked foods. Pathogenic bacteria, or their toxins, take some time to work through your system before you feel the effects. This is usually 4-12 hours depending on the bacteria and the amount of it you ate. The chances are that whatever made you sick was something you ate the meal before you ate the beans. The amount of cooking to get a dry bean even to a state you could crunch through it would be enough to kill any bacteria on the outside. So your food poisoning was more likely the chicken salad you had for lunch that had sat on your kitchen counter for four hours!

3. The thought that you can store and eat food for an extended emergency that you don't eat now is incorrect. The idea that "if you are hungry enough, you'll eat anything" is a "PROVEN" misconception. I was involved with feeding studies as an Army Officer and found that the stress of an emergency will cause you to eat the unfamiliar food for a short while, then you will eat less and less of it, lose weight and health, and hit a steady state of reduced nourishment. I'm not saying you won't continue to eat the strange stuff but you will eat less and less till you are compromised. Therefore, store the stuff you already eat – even if it's in a form you are not currently using. In other words, if you like fresh apples, you'll eat more canned applesauce and dried apples slices than you will eat whey protein powder.
Click to expand...

Just as a heads up, red bean toxicity has nothing to do with bacteria:

"Toxicity

The toxic compound lectin phytohaemagglutinin is present in many varieties, but is especially concentrated in red kidney beans. Although in the case of dry beans the ten minutes at 100 degrees Celsius required to degrade the toxin is much shorter than the hours required to fully cook the beans themselves, outbreaks of poisoning have been associated with the use of slow cookers whose low cooking temperatures may be unable to degrade the toxin. The British public health authority, PHLS, has recommended soaking kidney beans for 5 hours before cooking.[2] Sprouts of pulses high in haemaglutins (such as kidney beans) should not be eaten.[2][3]"

A single uncooked red bean is enough, in some cases, to hospitalize — or kill — some individuals. Many other beans also contain lectin phytohaemagglutinin, but red kidney beans are the worst.

Please don't tell people that it is a myth: DO YOUR RESEARCH! Unless properly cooked, they can kill you. As a "practicing Food Scientist," you should know better.

Incidentally, high temperatures (boiling) for even 10 to 20 minutes will kill the toxin. Slow cooking at low temperatures, such as in a Crock Pot, will not usually kill the toxin.
 
dawsonbob (I have Dawsons in my immediate family line, I hope we aren't related!)

Before you let your righteous indignation get the best of you, let me point out some inconsistencies in your diatribe.

1. FortyTwoBlades indicated his "symptom" was diahrrea, not DEATH. Most food related diahrrea is from a bacterial pathogen (staph, salmonella, shigella, campylobacter, etc.), even in beans.

2. Lectins are proteins. Proteins are generally denatured and made harmless at temperatures around 160°F. Most crock pots are designed to maintain a temperature of 170°F on LOW and up to 200° to boiling (about 210°F at the elevation I live at). Crock pots may not kill the toxin during the early cooking process but if the beans are allowed to rise in temp, and equilibrate to the LOW setting, the toxin will be denatured. Phytohaemagglutinin poisoning is generally found in red kidney beans, and a few whites. He didn't identify the bean type.

3. I did not say that poisoning due to undercooked beans was a "myth". Those are your words. I said I wasn't aware of any compounds that did such. Neither were you till this came up.

4. It's hard to say what poisoned FortyTwoBlades. The syndrome you indicated is very rare because a bean that, although undercooked, will not generally be palatable at temperatures low enough to allow the lectin protein to go undenatured. I stand by my earlier suggestion that it was probably bacterially induced food poisoning.

5. Your sensationalism of the lethality of this protein poisoning (a single bean is enough, in some cases, to hospitalize or kill...) is quite different information from that I found.

6. dawsonbob, unless you are a food toxicologist, don't come at me with a misquoted wikipedia article. I don't have the time to teach you about all the inconsistencies you proferred in your thread (boiling point of water, etc.). YOU should know better.
 
bruce said:
dawsonbob (I have Dawsons in my immediate family line, I hope we aren't related!)

Before you let your righteous indignation get the best of you, let me point out some inconsistencies in your diatribe.

1. FortyTwoBlades indicated his "symptom" was diahrrea, not DEATH. Most food related diahrrea is from a bacterial pathogen (staph, salmonella, shigella, campylobacter, etc.), even in beans.

2. Lectins are proteins. Proteins are generally denatured and made harmless at temperatures around 160°F. Most crock pots are designed to maintain a temperature of 170°F on LOW and up to 200° to boiling (about 210°F at the elevation I live at). Crock pots may not kill the toxin during the early cooking process but if the beans are allowed to rise in temp, and equilibrate to the LOW setting, the toxin will be denatured. Phytohaemagglutinin poisoning is generally found in red kidney beans, and a few whites. He didn't identify the bean type.

3. I did not say that poisoning due to undercooked beans was a "myth". Those are your words. I said I wasn't aware of any compounds that did such. Neither were you till this came up.

4. It's hard to say what poisoned FortyTwoBlades. The syndrome you indicated is very rare because a bean that, although undercooked, will not generally be palatable at temperatures low enough to allow the lectin protein to go undenatured. I stand by my earlier suggestion that it was probably bacterially induced food poisoning.

5. Your sensationalism of the lethality of this protein poisoning (a single bean is enough, in some cases, to hospitalize or kill...) is quite different information from that I found.

6. dawsonbob, unless you are a food toxicologist, don't come at me with a misquoted wikipedia article. I don't have the time to teach you about all the inconsistencies you proferred in your thread (boiling point of water, etc.). YOU should know better.
Click to expand...

First of all, Bruce, it wasn't "righteous indignation", but real concern that you, as "a practicing Food Scientist" were passing along information that could, conceivably, get someone killed. You exhibited what I thought was a rather cavalier dismissal of a very real problem: toxicity in beans.

Yes, many common beans are toxic, due not to bacterium, but to chemicals contained in the beans themselves. People do die every year from not properly processing (cooking) beans. The dismissal of the problem by a "practicing food scientist" is not a good thing. Why? Because many people would read what you wrote and say to themselves "Hey, this guy is a food scientist. I'd better trust him." That was not a diatribe on my part, simply a desire to keep my fellow man alive. I'll stand by that.

1. Yes, FortyTwoBlades indicated his "symptom" was diarrhea, not DEATH. Well, that's true, although I wouldn't cite DEATH as a mere symptom.:D I would certainly cede that "Most food related diahrrea is from a bacterial pathogen (staph, salmonella, shigella, campylobacter, etc.), even in beans." While that may be true, and is to the best of my limited knowledge, I must ask you what are the symptoms of bean poisoning? If I remember correctly, early symptoms do include both diarrhea and projectile vomiting.

2. Lectins are proteins. Proteins are generally denatured and made harmless at temperatures around 160°F. Most crock pots are designed to maintain a temperature of 170°F on LOW and up to 200° to boiling (about 210°F at the elevation I live at). Crock pots may not kill the toxin during the early cooking process but if the beans are allowed to rise in temp, and equilibrate to the LOW setting, the toxin will be denatured. Phytohaemagglutinin poisoning is generally found in red kidney beans, and a few whites. He didn't identify the bean type. I agree with all of that, although all that I've read has specified boiling for ten to twenty minutes.

3. I did not say that poisoning due to undercooked beans was a "myth". Those are your words. I said I wasn't aware of any compounds that did such. Neither were you till this came up. No, you did not; the term "myth" was my own, again in reaction to what I perceived as your dismissal of a very real problem. As far as my not being aware of this until this came up, that's not actually correct, since I've written on this subject more than once — several times on this forum, if I remember correctly.

4. It's hard to say what poisoned FortyTwoBlades. The syndrome you indicated is very rare because a bean that, although undercooked, will not generally be palatable at temperatures low enough to allow the lectin protein to go undenatured. I stand by my earlier suggestion that it was probably bacterially induced food poisoning. Yes, it probably was.

5. Your sensationalism of the lethality of this protein poisoning (a single bean is enough, in some cases, to hospitalize or kill...) is quite different information from that I found. I was by no means sensationalizing this. The red bean, while generally harmless (and tasty) after proper cooking, can kill some susceptible people with as little as one bean. You may wish to research that a little further when you get time. I don't remember where on the site, but the CDC has a caution there somewhere.

6. dawsonbob, unless you are a food toxicologist, don't come at me with a misquoted wikipedia article. I don't have the time to teach you about all the inconsistencies you proferred in your thread (boiling point of water, etc.). YOU should know better. The Wikipedia article was just the quickest one I could grab, but it's no less accurate because of that. While you may believe there were inconsistencies in my response, I don't believe there were, actually. Oh, and I don't believe I ever mentioned the boiling point of water: where did you get that? And no, I'm not a food toxicologist, but I have had reason to do a little research in this area (hey, I like beans — so sue me. Beans are good.)

I'm not here to castigate you, Bruce. That was not my intention at all. I was, however, reacting to what I perceived as erroneous — and potentially deadly — information. Obviously, you have a more thorough grounding in food toxicology than I, but on that one little thing...

Have a good one.
 
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dawsonbob, no problem. I wonder if we are related?

You are right in that I wasn't aware of the syndrome you mentioned until you brought it up. I have worked a little with dry beans but my field of concentration is in muscle tissue as a food, and in dairy products.

We both learned something tonight. If I do any more bean work for my company, I'll certainly be aware of this issue.
 
bruce said:
3. The thought that you can store and eat food for an extended emergency that you don't eat now is incorrect. The idea that "if you are hungry enough, you'll eat anything" is a "PROVEN" misconception. I was involved with feeding studies as an Army Officer and found that the stress of an emergency will cause you to eat the unfamiliar food for a short while, then you will eat less and less of it, lose weight and health, and hit a steady state of reduced nourishment. I'm not saying you won't continue to eat the strange stuff but you will eat less and less till you are compromised. Therefore, store the stuff you already eat – even if it's in a form you are not currently using. In other words, if you like fresh apples, you'll eat more canned applesauce and dried apples slices than you will eat whey protein powder.
Click to expand...

While I do agree with you Bruce, one's mind can literally starve one’s self to death by not eating "gross" or unfamiliar foods. Our culture has created some very strong perceptions and stereotypes; if you can get past those stigmatisms, than anything can be eaten to survive. The only data I have is the History Channel and the piece they did on some Apocalypse type show (which was pretty interesting BTW)…but it doesn’t surprise me as we can mentally handle challenges beyond our physical means, or mentally handicap ourselves with a weak constitution and feeble fortitude. But it is prudent planning to store away familiar foods. Unfamiliar foods can cause digestive issues, especially under stress. I try to expose my kids to different food types, wild game, fish, etc. and my wife is actually quite good at trying new and different recipes. But just like I mentioned, stigmas can keep people from eating certain foods. My wife is a perfect example in that she grew up eating all kinds of fish and shell fish plus deer and other wild game; mostly due to her economical status as those were relatively inexpensive to acquire. She chooses not to eat deer or any type of seafood/fish now (much to my chagrin:mad:)...although she does recognize that if forced, she could make do.

Interesting discussion...

ROCK6
 
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