Caswell finish?

[NCprotector]

Winkler knives II come with a caswell finish. What exactly is caswell and will it wear off with use rendering the blade to rust more easily?

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Caswell is a plating and metal finishing supplier.
"Caswell finish" is apparently something the maker made up.

 

[knarfeng]

Winkler knives II come with a caswell finish. What exactly is caswell and will it wear off with use rendering the blade to rust more easily?

Caswell is a plating and metal finishing supplier.
"Caswell finish" is apparently something the maker made up.

Caswell is known to make a solution which will blacken stainless steel. It's apparently an acidic etchant as opposed to a paint. If the blade itself is stainless, then any finish which is removed through usage will just reveal stainless steel. In such a case I would not expect the corrosion resistance of the steel to be affected.

 

[leozinho]

Aren't Winkler knives 52100? That's a high carbon steel that will rust.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

The Caswell finish on the Winklers wears very well ... and even when it starts to wear I think they just look better ...

the steel is high carbon so it is not stainless ... with maybe a couple rare runs exceptions ... but his normal steel is not stainless ... most of his blades are ... Blade steel: 80CrV2
but the caswell finish does protect the blades well and even after wear minor maintenance is all it takes ...

and you'll have a strong blade that will serve you for years and years.

 

[Wowbagger]

The Caswell finish on the Winklers wears very well ... and even when it starts to wear I think they just look better ..

I know nothing about it but am curious to find out if the solution can be reapplied by a home shop crafts person to coat the scratched areas. I realize the scratches might still be detectable afterward but that would be a desirable product in deed.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

That I can't answer ... I have never heard of anyone else using it but it might be a simple solution ...

you could call Winkler I've found they are great to answer questions.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

Why not just look on their web site?
caswellplating.com

 

[leozinho]

I know nothing about it but am curious to find out if the solution can be reapplied by a home shop crafts person to coat the scratched areas. I realize the scratches might still be detectable afterward but that would be a desirable product in deed.

I’m going to guess no, solely because if it was a decent coating that you could apply at home we would have heard about it. A lot of us have played around with durakote, cerakote, even parkerizing etc.

I wouldn’t worry about it. If thI coating comes off, just treat it like any other unfinished high carbon steel blade. Oil it, keep it dry or force a patina.

Come to think of it, I’ve never seen a photo of a Winkler II user. (I’m sure they exist, but I haven’t seen one and a quick google didn’t find one. That might tell you something about who is buying winkler knives. Draw your own conclusions.). I have no idea how the coating holds up.

 

[Danketch]

In the literature that comes with the knife, it states that the finish will wear off with use, and even gives tips on how to accelerate that process. These knives are marketed for a more knowledgeable knife user, who in general knows what carbon steel is, and knows how to maintain them. Really satisfied with mine so far.

 

[Danke42]

I’m going to guess no, solely because if it was a decent coating that you could apply at home we would have heard about it. A lot of us have played around with durakote, cerakote, even parkerizing etc.

I wouldn’t worry about it. If thI coating comes off, just treat it like any other unfinished high carbon steel blade. Oil it, keep it dry or force a patina.

Come to think of it, I’ve never seen a photo of a Winkler II user. (I’m sure they exist, but I haven’t seen one and a quick google didn’t find one. That might tell you something about who is buying winkler knives. Draw your own conclusions.). I have no idea how the coating holds up.

The coating holds up fine. That' s why the "users" still look good after years of use cutting stuff.

 

[Wowbagger]

Come to think of it, I’ve never seen a photo of a Winkler II user.

. . . aaaaaannnnnnnd it looks like we won't here either.

Why not just look on their web site?
caswellplating.com

Mr. Deshivs,
That was my first thought as well.
Probably not worth the effort or you would be using it. Right ?

 

[leozinho]

The coating holds up fine. That' s why the "users" still look good after years of use cutting stuff.

Are you saying the coating is impervious to use and therefore the reason I just see photos of pristine Winklers is because the coating doesn’t show wear?

(I’m sure right about now someone will post a photo of a well-used Winkler to prove me wrong. I’m sure someone is using their Winkler.)

(I’m also sure that coating will show wear. )

 

[Danke42]

Are you saying the coating is impervious to use and therefore the reason I just see photos of pristine Winklers is because the coating doesn’t show wear?

(I’m sure right about now someone will post a photo of a well-used Winkler to prove me wrong. I’m sure someone is using their Winkler.)

(I’m also sure that coating will show wear. )

No, the coating wears but it looks consistent as it wears.

Since the handles are pinned on they don't seem at attract the folks who's first move is to strip the blade (why folks pay for a coating if they don't want it) And since they sit in a kind of small niche It seems like they attract a crowd that can use and maintain them without ruining them.

 

[timichango]

(I’m sure right about now someone will post a photo of a well-used Winkler to prove me wrong. I’m sure someone is using their Winkler.)

OK, I'll bite Guess it's time to remedy the absence of photos of a user-Winkler.

Winkler Camp Axe, TAD Edition (early version w. tapered tang) by Timichango, on Flickr

Winkler Camp Axe, TAD Edition (early version w. tapered tang) – Verso by Timichango, on Flickr

Had this puppy since 2016, and it was as-new when I bought it 2nd hand (never used, sharpened, scuffed, etc.) Pretty quickly after laying hands on it, I wound up re-profiling the edge to convex, as I wasn't ecstatic with how obtuse the stock bevel was, nor the noticeable lopsidedness of that bevel. The stock edge was plenty sharp, mind you, just not acute enough for my preferences and uses. I do generally prefer a convex edge on an axe if for no other reason than that it simplifies my life a bit with regards to sharpening, as I can use the same equipment as with my other axes (a couple of Gransfors axes).

The photos shown here represent about two dozen nights' worth of camping & campfire wood prep: busting down purchased firewood into kindling, making feather sticks (it'll do it, but it's obviously not the ideal tool for that), limbing or taking down smaller standing dead wood for scavenging firewood, chopping/shaping tarp pegs/poles, some food prep (busted down a handful of chickens with it, cubed out some chuck for stew, chopped assorted veggies, obliterated some pumpkins, used the side of the head to mash many cloves of garlic, etc.), used the hammer poll to beat on a lug wrench to get a stubborn lug nut to budge once, and — maybe the most unexpected use I've applied it to — used it to shear sections of 4AWG copper wire when I was making up new battery cables for my update of the auxiliary electrical system in my van last year: couldn't find my chisel, and the axe was on-hand in the garage, along with a big stump I'd been using to pre-prep firewood for impromptu bonfires at the river across the street. Decided to try a test cut with the axe, and it was laughably easy to get through the cable in a single stroke. Second cut on each of the two leads I was making up was measured out, and then the winkler pounded through the cable with a urethane dead-blow hammer, for accuracy (still working on developing the accuracy of my axe swing...).

Anyways — that's what it's been up to since I got it, and the wear shown is the result. Not too bad. I'm more or less indifferent about coatings anyways, having owned other carbon steel blades for years, and never having had a stainless axe or hatchet. That said, it is pretty impressive that it's still mostly coated — only the first inch or so of the head behind the edge has any significant wear, and the rest of the mottling you see (other than the obvious directional scuffs) is mostly just discoloration of the coating from contact with food, finger oils, whatever.

For someone who might be more concerned about maintaining some kind of coating after use, I *did* do some searching around the internet soon after I got the thing (and before I decided I really didn't care), and found this: https://www.caswellcanada.ca/black-oxide-kit.html — reckon that's what you'd need to re-Caswell the thing. For my purposes, a lightly mineral-oiled bit of cotton shop rag kept on-hand in a small ziploc does just fine.

One thing particular to the Winkler axe and its (fantastic) sheath: the felt-lined kydex has had two main downsides, for me, in my somewhat limited experience: the felt is pretty good at trapping moisture and/or grit, if it's exposed to either. If you're particularly concerned about corrosion, then keeping the sheath off the ground is a good plan for minimizing grit—your belt's a pretty good place for it, but if you're using around camp and sitting down a bunch, then that can be a pain, and all of the times I've dropped it in the dirt/sand have been when I'm loafing around a campsite. Moisture's bound to happen at some point, so even with the coating intact, you're going to need to oil it to keep the edge itself from rusting. And if the sheath felt ever gets really wet, you'll want to get the axe out of it and let it dry when your trip is done, since it won't drip-dry like a plain kydex sheath will when the head is in there — seems to need a bit of airflow in there to dry out if it's a smidge soaked. Doesn't take too long, and the lining seems to release moisture pretty well with a bit of pressure, so an absorbent microfiber cloth or some decent paper towels can help that process along nicely. In practice, though, even with some mildly negligent episodes in my own care and feeding of the thing in inclement weather, the thing doesn't seem to be in a huge rush to oxidize — had some superficial rust spotting around the edge when I lazily stored it in a damp (and gritty!) sheath one night after a touch too much bourbon with an old friend I was catching up with, the superficial rust got worn off handily by simply processing some kindling to get the morning fire going for some badly-needed coffee. Seemed to fare better than my old Bark River Gunny (in A2 steel) being wet overnight, despite my impression that A2 is more corrosion resistant than 5160 (what this generation of the axe was made with). Makes me think that even though it's pretty faint at this point, the residual oxides from the worn coating behind the edge are still helping out with the elements.

My normal touch-up routine on the Winkler after a few trips' use (or whenever it becomes noticeably less keen) is a gentle & fast circular pass with the fine side of the Gransfors Bruks ceramic puck to bring the edge back, and then a quick strop on a paddle loaded with a couple different grits of CBN emulsion (2000/4000 on opposite sides) to polish it out a bit. If I'm at home, and not out camping somewhere, I might do a quick pass between the puck and the strop by hand, using the fine/ultrafine rods from a sharpmaker, running in a circular motion much the same as with the puck, just to bridge the grit gap between the puck and strop and speed things up a bit, since the jump from the puck to the 2000 grit side of the strop is substantial.

I've also simply sharpened it up on a 4" x 3" chunk of 6mm thick neoprene, harvested from a defunct wetsuit, with a piece of 1000 grit wet/dry norton sandpaper over it — that's what I've got snugged into my little firestarting kit along with my other bits and bobs, and it's what I pocket if I'm cycling or walking to wherever I'm camping (or just doing an evening fire down by the river).

Anyways, that's a lot of blather from me about the axe, when the reality is that it's a super robust piece of kit, and coating or no coating you'd need to be seriously negligent for a serious amount of time to meaningfully damage it that way, beyond cosmetically. And they look better used anyhow

 

[timichango]

As an addendum to the above, it occurred to me that I should probably mention that my axe isn't Winkler's "camp axe" as indicated by the titles of the photos I embedded from Flickr: it's the Triple Aught Design version of the "Hammer Combat Axe", from the earlier run when those were more or less identical to the non-TAD version and had the tapered tang, before the TAD offerings got split into 1/4" (HD) and 1/8" (LT) non-tapered tang variants. I'm guessing the later TAD variants got changed due to them being simpler to make (no tang tapering necessary), and providing a bit more differentiation from Winkler's core line.

Anyways, thought I should clarify that in case anyone happened to notice that the photo titles are erroneous — that was deliberate, in order to avoid needing to field the predictable "why the hell do you need a combat axe?" question from my people in that sphere of life (ie. photography/family/friends), when combat doesn't have anything at all (fingers crossed!) to do with my use for it.

 

[leozinho]

Thanks for that post. That finish wears well. I like it. It seems unlike a DLC that scratches more than it “wears”, if that makes sense.

Nice hatchet , but why do you need a combat axe?

 

[timichango]

Thanks for that post. That finish wears well. I like it. It seems unlike a DLC that scratches more than it “wears”, if that makes sense.

Yep — it wears like etching/oxidization, not like a topcoat. That said, I've only had three coated blades: a Becker BK9, a Survive! GSO 4.7 in CruForge V, and this Winkler, and they all wear differently (the other two are using different baked-on topcoats). The Becker was the worst of the bunch, and the black coating it came with scratched easily down to the steel, and then kind of started chipping/flaking out from there (wound up chemical-stripping that one). Cerakote on the GSO has yet to show much significant wear, but hasn't seen a heap of use so jury's out, but the wear it is showing is more surface scuff marks and some localized fading back from the edge and spine on account of batonning with it. From what I've seen that's pretty consistent for Cerakote.

The black oxide Caswell coating on the winkler seems to wear more 'organically', if that makes sense — it's more akin to wear patterns on a heavily patina'd knife (I'm thinking of my carbon steel opinel here), and kind of visually blends with the base metal as it wears, rather than looking like paint getting eaten away. Doesn't seem like it's possible to chip it, unlike a contiguous polymer/ceramic coating either, since I'm pretty sure it's a reactive coating (ie. a conversion coating that uses the iron in the steel's surface) rather than something getting bonded/laminated on top. It also seems super thin — unlike the other two coatings I mentioned, raking a thumbnail across any hard wear boundaries, there's no perceptible transition from the coating to the steel.

Reckon if you've had any black-oxide coated driver bits or hex sockets they probably show wear pretty similarly.

Nice hatchet , but why do you need a combat axe?

To do battle with knotty firewood!

Ultimately, though: because it's a great little hatchet, and I stumbled across it for a stupid-good price on ebay — had an hour or two where I thought I might have unwittingly impulse-bought a knockoff, until Mr. Winkler replied to my email inquiries which included photos from the ad, and confirmed it was authentic. That afternoon was full of relief... and a few pints of good stout to celebrate my good fortune.