cattaraugus 225q

there was a year that this knife was made during war time that the knives was made for the army in mass production that they inspected only 1 out of 10 knives. these knives were called the cattaraugus tilted mold design and there were only a total of at the most nine ever produced. The nife will be thicker toward the center and end of the blade and uneven and thinner at the shaft therefore causing the stamping to not take except for the 1st 2 or 3 letters. very rare knife to find and hard to detect if its been sharpened a lot.
 
There where also war surplus blades that were assembled after the war by them, pal and others and sold as "sporting knives".
 
rev_jch said:
There where also war surplus blades that were assembled after the war by them, pal and others and sold as "sporting knives".
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what are you trying to tell me? Are you saying that there was no tilted mold design knife, that cattaraugus kept surplus of light stamped 225q blades to sell to the public to see?
 
These knives were made in VERY large numbers during wartime. That a few might be lightly struck is hardly a surprise.

No mold was involved in the production of these knives. They have NO molded parts whatsoever. All metal parts are drawn, stamped or forged.

Draw your own conclusion about "tilted molds." Certainly, Cole does not mention it in his books.
 
Thomas, is right there were no molds being used in these.

As far as surplus blades, others did this also. That is assembled knives out of left over parts. Pal did this, among others also.
 
I doubt that any molds were involved in making the 225Q. What were involved were stamping dies to impress the Cattaraugus logo and the 225Q designation in the side of the blade. These dies were subject to wear (getting mashed flat) from the stamping process. The most likely explanation for unstamped blades or blades without logos is that the dies were worn or the someone skipped the stamping process. The Cattaraugus logo is done in a pseudo-cursive script that must have been particularly expensive to produce. I bet those dies did not get replaced as often as the simple printing text of a lot of other knife brands.

I have an interest in Collins machetes and it is common to see die wear and die replacement in certain high volume models. The concept of sloppy inspection and a particular limited batch of lightly stamped blades seems pretty ludicrous to me. There were probably hundreds or thousands of badly stamped blades turned out. Some of these may have been post war assemblies, but I doubt that government inspectors wanted to keep some marine on Saipan from having a knife because it didn't say Cattaraugus clearly enough. I would rate my 225Q as being medium stamped. You would not need to go a lot lighter for this logo to start getting faint.
 
I dont know about there not being molds used but why does the blade have a thicker center and tip and thinner shaft on 1 side where the stamp goes? has any of you ever seen this in a cattaraugus? I own at least 10 of the 225q`s and they all have the proper stamping and even balance as this knife should.
 
Ive read your explanation on the stamping now can you explain the uneveness of the metal? The stamping area at the shaft you can read the 1st 3 letters cat then there is no marking at all. The shaft on the side where theres no letters compared to my other 225`s is thinner and the center of the blase is thicker in 1 spot and at the tip is much thicker. the thin side of the shaft would cause the stamping not to take wouldnt it?
 
mssmallcollector said:
I dont know about there not being molds used but why does the blade have a thicker center and tip and thinner shaft on 1 side where the stamp goes? has any of you ever seen this in a cattaraugus? I own at least 10 of the 225q`s and they all have the proper stamping and even balance as this knife should.
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We need a picture or common language. Knives are not ususally spoken of as having "shafts." The stamping on the 225Q is on the ricasso of the blade.

I am not sure what you mean by the "center."

I did see one 225Q that had deep pitting ground away with a disk sander. That left shallow depressions in the sides of the blade.
 
sorry didnt know it was called ricasso I call the shaft where the blade enters the handle. This knife has never been sharpened that I can tell thats why it is so easy to detect the uneveness in the blade and the uneveness in the ricasso. I have a pic. I will try to get it to you.
 
when I sa the center Im talking about where the blade starts to make the turn upward from the top of the blade pass the groove down to blade edge toward the point is very thick and the point tip has a thick end causing it to have a ripple look
 
mssmallcollector said:
when I sa the center Im talking about where the blade starts to make the turn upward from the top of the blade pass the groove down to blade edge toward the point is very thick and the point tip has a thick end causing it to have a ripple look
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No need for "sorry." We're just trying to communicate.

Speaking of the 225Q

The straight back of the blade = "back" or "spine"

The part where the blade angles down FROM the back to meet the point = clip.

If the "clip" has been partially or completely sharpened, it's called a "false edge." Here it has been, so the 225Q has a "false edge."

The cutting edge of the knife is created by a "bevel" on each side. The bevels meet to form the edge.

The groove is a "fuller."

The narrower part that goes into the handle = "tang"

The more-or-less flat area in front of the fuller and between the false edge and the main bevel of the edge is the "swage"

The ricasso you know about.

(Oh for that picture from Ken Warner's book!)

Again, this is a mass-produced item that could have been less than perfect when made OR modified later by efforts to remove pitting. We do know it was not molded.
 
I came across this 225Q that is missing the "225Q" mark.

It is the one on top.

Anyone have any more info that could explain this, or did it just get passed over in production?


oI7xcY9.jpg


mPivk87.jpg
 
No idea but I just have to say that I usually dislike this design but this knife in particular is an exception. It's just pretty.


Carry on. :)
 
My first thought with regard to both of those pictured above is that the blades are VERY worn like someone scrubbed them down to remove surface rust and wore away a shallow stamp. Here is mine still in "like new" condition as received from the estate of my grandfather-in-law (2nd Lt US Army Air Corps, WW2):

IMG_0692.JPG




I may need to take a closer shot, but the stamp is very clear, as are the bevels and the fuller - note how long the fuller is and how distinct the bevel-grind.


In the OPs description, a thinner "shaft" on the stamp side where the stamp appears "faded" indicates that someone rubbed/polished/ground away a lot of metal there, probably to remove rust/pitting.
 
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